Thinking about going Damascus
 

Looking at a GH #1 frame 12 gauge damascus if the barrels check safe. Any tips on shooting one or for reloading shells?

Thanks

Jeff

There’s nothing different about shooting and caring for a Parker with Damascus barrels vs fluid-pressed steel barrels. Same precautions in every respect.

The real bonus is, you get to look at and admire the intricate and beautiful Damascus pattern whenever you hold it.





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+1 to Dean's comment. :clap:

This might help Jeff
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads...-shoot.366087/

Checking the barrels for safety means having the barrels evaluated by a barrel specialist with the interest, equipment (wall thickness gauge and bore scope), and expertise to properly do so. If the smith can't tell you wall thicknesses from breech to muzzle, or states "should be safe with low brass", you need another opinion.

In light of the age of the wood (not the barrels) it would be reasonable to stick with 1 oz. at 1200 fps target loads. And of course NO STEEL.

I clean my pattern welded barrels with a brass Tornado brush.
https://www.proshotproducts.com/12-G...USH_p_715.html
In the unlikely event that the standard stainless steel brush would fracture, the sharp edge will gouge a damascus barrel.

Jeff, less is more… or, certainly, enough. Take care of the history you’re shooting and someone down the road will thank you.

Thank you for all the responses

Go for it. And Dean is right

Jeff, I shoot a 1901 "G" Damascus 12 on a regular basis, at the Adam's Cup last weekend as a mater of fact. I shoot 1 oz. loads tested at Precision, mild and pleasant to shoot. Will whack a pigeon or Helice, powders clays when I hit'em, great with bismuth for ducks. If the barrels are in good condition my big worry is the wood and the aged shooter! I clean with a brass brush and Hoppes, light oil patch last.
Reloading 2 1/2" Cheditte hulls with 16.8 gr. International, BP's CS12 wad with a 1/8" 20 ga. cork for filler, 1 oz. of 7 1/2 shot. Tested @ 1193 FPS and 5970 PSI. A pussycat to shoot and it WORKS!

I shoot probably more Damascus/twist barrels than I do fluid steel ! Damascus 8 , Damascus and twist 10’s , fluid steel 12’s and fluid steel 16’s . I’ve liquidated the 20’s and 28 .

90% of my shooting is with Damascus, twist or Laminate barrels, it just has to be respected, as any gun should be.
And they’re beautiful, what’s not to like.

Thanks for that load Keith, I filed it in my reloading notebook. Unfortunately, have only a little over 1 pound International left. I use it for 3/4 oz 16 ga loads in 21/2" cheddite hulls and DR16 wad.

DelGrego, when he worked on the Parker project at Remington in Ilion, said he remembered seeing two or three 55 gallon drums of Damascus barrels that were destined for scrap.

I shoot Damascus and Laminated barrels most of the time without even a remote thought of their safety. If I have checked them for wall thickness and pits I am convinced they are safe for me to shoot again and again.

I have a nice 1898 DH that was made with beautiful F/F Titanic Steel barrels but I love the beauty of Damascus so I bought a nice set of IC/IMOD Damascus barrels and had Russ Bickel fit them to my gun.

I shoot either set as often as I like.




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At the risk of repeating myself (again ;) ), but so is Harry
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...hIiY62Hx4/edit

I always warn the rest of the squad shooting skeet at Ben Avery that they better stand back 'cause "these old barrels may blow at any time".
Doesn't help my shooting but seems to negatively influence theirs' :)

:rotf::biglaugh::rotf:





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Yup- Different strokes Harry. :)





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Is there any research confirming Twist or Damascus is inherently unsafe to shoot? Seems there is a multitude of people shooting them, myself included. A barrel burst can occur in fluid steel too. I wonder if there is any data, say over the last 20 years on the number of blown barrels broken down by what steel they are made of.

I am living proof Damascus is safe with adequate wall thickness

No Mike, there has been no (scientific) research confirming Twist or Damascus is/are inherantly unsafe to shoot. Anyone who states so is simply expressing an opinion or repeating the opinion of others. In the Double Gun Journal Sherman Bell conducted his own tests in order to discover 'burst' or 'rupture' pressures . No, his teste weren't ultra scientific but he used pressure sensing instruments and measured walls and exterrior measurements after each set of shots fired at increasing chamber pressures. Sure, some barrels ruptured or became deformed but these exceeded 31,000 psi.





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There has been original research measuring the tensile strength of a variety of pattern welded tubes, several contributed by PGCA members
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...hfDxmrNAU/edit

There were possibly 40 pattern welded tubes donated to 'Zircon' without apparent follow through.

There ARE failure analyses, including Ron Graham's report of Sherman Bells ruptured GH Damascus barrels and VH Vulcan Steel barrels, and the PCGA has a copyrighted and unpublished formal metallurgical failure analysis of those barrels.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...K7G9IBs4g/edit

And no "orange lace" from mythical internal corrosion in these freshly cut tubes ready for tensile testing and composition analysis

https://photos.smugmug.com/Barrel-Ev...gth%204-XL.jpg

And this from Mike George, Technical Editor, “ShootingUK”
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/...us-steel-13767
“In the USA there is one chap who is active on websites who believes that all Damascus steel barrels are so dangerous they should be destroyed.”
http://www.randywakeman.com/WhyYouSh...cusBarrels.htm
“But then you are likely to get piffle like this from a nation that does not have gun barrel proof legislation.”
(Piffle: “pseudo-scientific trivial nonsense, baloney”)

The Birmingham Proof House routinely proves pattern welded barrels. I have no information on the failure rate.

Thanks Drew. I knew you’d come on and set me (all of us) straight.
Always good to hear from your expertise.





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I have nothing against a person that doesn’t care to fire guns with Damascus or twist barrels that’s their prerogative , however on the other hand if I’m shooting them and someone doesn’t like it the best thing they can do is not stay around . I was shown an article from
The American Rifleman once that was written back in the late forties or early to mid fifties . If my memory serves P.O. Ackley wrote it . He took four Parker’s all with good bores , tight etc . Two were fluid steel and two were damascus . He started loading below factory standards trying same loads in all four working his way up to factory smokeless pressures . Then he started exceeding pressure velocity etc . He burst the two fluid steel barrels and went on with the two damascus guns until he thought he’d sprung the actions enough to make lock up not safe I think the article said . Anyway those guns I’m sure had far better bore condition barrels than a good many now .

Thinking more about Mike's question, IMHO the Birmingham Proof House's frequent proving of pattern welded barrels does constitute an ongoing "experiment'; though without controlling for uniformity of wall thickness.

Great Britain joined the Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives standards in 1980 but the new Rules of Proof were not introduced until 1984. Lead Crushers were used until 1989.

The CIP transducer “Maximal Statistical Individual Pressure” is 850 BAR = 12,328 PSI for a “Maximal Average (Service) Pressure” of 740 BAR = 10,733 PSI, and “Mean Proof Pressure” of 960 BAR = 13,924 PSI.
900 BAR is for a “Maximal Average (Service) Pressure” of 780 BAR = 11,313 PSI and Proof pressure of 1020 BAR = 14,794 PSI.
High Performance (Magnum) MSIP is 1200 BAR = 17,405 PSI for a Service Pressure of 1050 BAR = 15,229 PSI, and Mean Proof Pressure of 1320 BAR = 19,145 PSI.

Damascus barrels reproved in 1992 at 1200 BAR (WHAT were they thinking?!? :shock: )

https://photos.smugmug.com/Proof-Mar...%26R%209-S.jpg

2006 British Rules of Proof changed the process slightly
https://www.gunproof.com/downloads/rules-proofing
Part IV, “The Proof Load”, Number 27, Part A
Calls for a load of 30% over mean service pressure at a point 17mm or 25mm (about 1”), and at a point 162mm (6.38”) from the breech face a load of 30% over mean service pressure (at that point as determined by the Proof House).
The powder used in proof loads is not specified.

AFAIK the Proof House has declined to reveal the powder used, or if this is one proof load shot or two proof load shots.

I suspect if those Damascus barrels were faulty they would certainly have known it at 1,200 BAR.
This just reinforces my belief in the inherent strength of pattern-welded barrels.
Thanks Drew!





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