Parker Chamber
 

Have a chance to buy a nicely restored Parker DH
1904 model by serial number , I think the price is fair
Has nice original metal butt cap and original pistol grip , wood looks delicious

Only thing holding me back is the chamber size , he told me he shot 2 1/2 out of it , RST shells , it’s pretty hard to find them over here in Alberta Canada

Does it hurt to have a good gunsmith to open it up to a 2 3/4 inch

i wouldnt open them, but thats just me. :)
scott
Fixed post i said i would but ment wouldn't

Prophet River does carry the RST when and if they are available...speak to Clay and ask where they sit going forward with bringing in more. Gamebore is your other option...Im sure someone carries them or can get them when they become available....word has it that by summer some will be available.

Are you sure about the chamber size ? get them measured first .

I’ll call Clay Monday
Last thing I want to do is mess with it ,

Wait a minute. You say the owner "shot 2 1/2" shells in it". What does that have to do with the actual chamber length? As Ed says, you have no idea of the length of the chamber. If it measures 2 5/8" or 2 3/4", you don't have to do anything to it. It would be proper for 2 3/4" shells.

I think it’s pretty safe to say a 1904 DH isn’t going to be 2 1/2, can anyone show an example of a middle grade or lower that’s 2 1/2 inch in 1904 and above?

Bill
Do you think way back in 1904 that it could of been made for 2 3/4 shells ,

Yes, or 3" or any other length. A letter about the original order or a measurement of the actual chamber will tell the tale.

On the top Bill , on the Rib , it says Titanic Steel , is that strong enough to handle 2 3/4 loads

Bill is right. 2 3/4 would be correct for multiple gauges, which are not stated if I follow correctly.

No where in this thread has the gauge of the gun in question been mentioned. In 1904, a Parker Bros. gun could have been ordered for any length shells our U.S. ammunition manufacturers offered -- 12-gauge 2 5/8-, 2 3/4-, 2 7/8-, 3- or 3 1/4-inch shells; a 16-gauge for 2 9/16-, 2 3/4-, 2 7/8- or 3-inch; a 20-gauge for 2 1/2-, 2 3/4-, 2 7/8- or 3-inch; and a 28-gauge for 2 1/2- or 2 7/8-inch shells. Generally speaking, Parked Bros. held their chambers 1/8-inch shorter than the intended shells.

It’s 1904 DH , with 30 inch barrels , say titanic steel on the rib , is a 12 gauge

Here is a letter on my DH made in 1896 with the owner ordering 2 3/4” chambered barrels.

The heaviest 12-gauge loads our North American ammunition companies offered in 1904 were 3 1/2-drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28-grains of dense smokeless powder (such as Infallible or Ballistite) pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot. Such loads could be had in the 12-gauge 2 3/4-inch or longer cases. In those days the longer shells had more/better wadding, which many shooters believed an advantage, not heavier pay loads. The pressure of those loads was a bit higher that modern day SAAMI specs. When progressive burning smokeless powder, high velocity loads (Western Super-X, Peter High-Velocity, Remington Nitro Express, etc.), came out circa 1922, they moved out that 12-gauge 1 1/4-ounce load at higher velocity but actually lower pressure than the old bulk or dense smokeless powders. That did subject stock heads and bolting to greater recoil forces.

While no one can tell you over the internet what ammunition may or may not be suitable in a given gun, I'd bet the chambers in the 1904 gun are at least 2 5/8-inches which is perfectly suitable for 2 3/4-inch shells.

Thank you all for the advice , I’m buying it and going to have it double checked out befor I put some shell through it , I’ll get the chokes checked and try light 1 ounce loads first ,
I’ll post some pictures as soon as I figure out how to
Thanks

My 1898 DH 12 has 30” Titanic barrels with 2 9/16” chambers and I often shoot 2 3/4” AA’s at trap and SC.






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i shoot mostly 2 1/2 RST from my 1904 VH but have shot modern 2 3/4 on occasion. pretty sure they are the original chambers. BTW...if you check the RST website often....they do become available but you can't hesitate.

Phil, that is one interesting letter. A DH with Vulcan Steel barrels, and a no safety pigeon gun to boot. The buyer's name has a familiar ring to it. Is he a competition shooter?

The explanation for the Vulcan Steel barrels on a 1896 DH is quite obvious. Titanic Steel barrels weren't introduced until 1897 and prior to their introduction the choices were only Damascus Steel, Laminated Steel, Twist and Vulcan Steel, so if someone wanted a DH with fluid steel barrels the only option was Vulcan Steel.





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Wm R. Burkhard's was a big sporting goods dealer in St Paul.

Just get the dam chambers measured. It will eliminate all speculation and give you peace of mind.

That’s my game plan , soon as I get it , I’ll have it measured and look at befor I start shooting it
Thanks

1937-38 Burkhards Catalog with pages showing Parker’s.

Thanks guys for the info on Burkhard. I had never knew who he was.

There is a high probability it is a 2.5 chamber. The thing is that a modern 2.75” shell fits in a chamber of that size because of the crimp (roll or pie). Shells are measured by the length before loading. That being said, if a 2.75 or 3” plastic shell fits in the 2.5” chamber and is shot the pressure will increase due to the end of the shell causing a constricted forcing cone. Not sure how dangerous that is but to be on the safe side there is nothing wrong with having it reamed to 2.75 for safety. Or if you reload, trim the hull to 2.5” then reload it.

Good discussion...., just as an added bit of information, I had a 1903 16 ga. 0 frame, VH grade, with Vulcan barrels that was sold as having 2-3/4" chambers.

I had a gunsmith measure the chambers and they were 2-3/4".

A later Research Letter verified that the gun was ordered with the 2-3/4" chambers.

Maybe take a quick look at the home page. Parker FAQs / Collecting/#7 barrel wall thickness. It will explain that wall thickness is quite important at the juncture of the chambers and forcing cone as well as the angle, furthermore the wall thickness is also decreasing from the breech to the muzzle. Just a little food for thought before wielding a reamer to save a little $$ on shells.

I’ll know with luck over the weekend , it’s in the mail to me to inspect and I’ll measure them then

Shell length is the measurement of the shell after firing. A 2 3/4" shell is the length after firing, not before.

Variations of a 2 3/4 open hull?? Far right is a 2 1/2 RST..

Parker was known for short chambered guns, I never had a hammerless steel barreled gun that would not shoot 23/4 inch shells and pattern properly!

That is interesting ,

A DGJ article of some years back demonstrated that the pressure rise was in the order of several hundred PSI out of a normal load of 8,000 .

Right Bruce but something less than 500 as I recall, and to the best of my memory, it was around 300 psi.





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Parker Hang Tag
 

I was researching some more on useing a light 12 load in 2 3/4 in a 2 1/2 chamber tonight and found a great chat on double guns

When i think light load , I’m talking more so about the pressure and the velocity
Say anything under 1150 PSI

I thought this very interesting


Attachment 115007

Great hang tag. I think you’ll find most of the folks here prefer significantly less pressure for a variety of reasons. I obviously misread the 1150 as 11,500. My apologies.

Does 107705 have composite barrels or fluid steel?
I know Parker Bros. never differentiated between the two in their load recommendations…





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Richard, I think the 1150 PSI is a typo? I don't know anything with only 1150 PSI.