Dollar Grade Gun
 

Need some help figuring this gun out. Grade, and value.
I've owned this one about 30 years now. Came to me from Chaddicks.
It's a 30" 12 gauge. Dimensions are very good at: 14" LOP, 1 3/4" DOC and 2 1/8" DAH
Herchel thought it was a "B", which we know it isn't. Oscar Gaddy thought it was a $250 Grade based on the tear drop inside the tear drop on the bolsters.
Once I get this one sorted out, I will be onto a 16 Ga project.
Here's some pics:
Attachment 114202

Attachment 114203

Attachment 114204

Attachment 114205

Attachment 114206

More pics:
Attachment 114207

Attachment 114208

Attachment 114209

Attachment 114210

Attachment 114211

2 more:
Attachment 114212

Attachment 114213

Wow. Hershel would like to have that one back. I would like to have it also. What a great gun.

What’s engraved on the shield. Beauty BTW

Based on what I see, it appears to be a $250.00 grade. Not quite a $300.00 grade due to lack of necessary engraving. A worthy project for refurbishing and chasing the engraving.

Do you have a PGCA letter on this gun? If not, you should get one. This may very well be an "in-between" gun - one that was ordered out as a demo or "teaser" gun to show what could be done on the higher grade guns, especially by special order.

I once owned a 10 ga. 32" lifter gun in the 135XX range that was clearly above a $200 Grade gun but also not quite a $250 Grade gun. A careful search of the Parker record books revealed that it was an "embellished" $200 Grade gun (e.g., a bona fide "$225 Grade" gun) that had been sent to a high-volume CO dealer for display at his store for prospective customers desiring a high grade Parker Gun. It was massive 4-frame gun weighing in at just under 12 pounds. It was also incorrectly identified as a B Grade gun.

The gun was manufactured in 1878 and wound up in an estate sale in MO in the late 1940s; I purchased it from an heir of the man who bought it at auction in 1947. According to him, they used it to hunt cornfield pheasants in MO and IO routinely using 2 7/8" 10 ga. smokeless powder shells up through the 1970s, ignoring the Damascus barrels. The gun won the Best Original Hammer Parker Gun at the Concours d' Elegance of Fine Guns at The Vintage Cup, Orvis Sandanona, September 22, 2001.

I'd call it a $200 quality gun, maybe a $225 QUALITY, or the predecessor to a B grade or grade 5.





.

Beautiful gun, thanks for sharing!

I believe it is a $200 grade gun. I own a gun with a serial number 6xxx and the stock is stamped with the serial number and a 6 (for the grade) under the trigger guard. It might be worth a try to check yours to see if it is stamped.

I don't think a letter is available on this gun, someone, Ron Kirby I think, found a note in an order book where it was traded in in 1927, if I recall correctly.
I have a copy of the page with the entry, but I can't figure it out. The writing might as well be in a foreign language.

Can you post a picture of that page entry Todd?





.

Ok, let's see if I can do this from my phone

Attachment 114229

I hope someone here can make heads or tails out of the above ledger. The only thing I've gotten out of it is the serial number about mid page.

I will take a stab at some of it. Here goes.

A. Mahan
Cortland, N.Y.
1 - 10 ga. w/ 30" damascus , pistol grip, weight 8/0 to 8/4, 14 3/4 lop, serial 7720 at $125.00
1 - 10 ga. w/ 30 inch, Less 1/4, can't make out this word, then serial 3130 at $125.00
3rd entry is some type of accessory for $3.50

I believe date at top of ledger is Oct, 8th 1877. I believe the entries on the left hand column are an order number. In this case order number 1922 received on Oct, 4th.

You can see the left hand column 4 digit numbers are sequential in 2's. I.E., 1920, 1922, 1924, 1926.

I may be all wrong, cool gun.

Thanks, Dean. Not sure on the 10 gauge, as this one is a 12.
Might be easier to interpret the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Mike, it has the initials RGR

My thoughts are the same as Dean's with the following changes...

8 - 8 1/4 lbs.
" (ditto mark for Dam) another " (ditto) for PG and Less 1/4 (inch? lb.?) and I can't make out that word either.

Most likely ordered by a business, hence the $125.00 wholesale price.




.

A couple oddities to consider. I assume this is a page from an order book? Maybe not. The top gun on the page 10688 and the bottom gun on the page 10282 look to be vintage 1877 which corresponds to date on the top of the page. The subject gun 3130 is 1874 and the gun 7720 is 1876. Maybe both guns were returned at some point and were sold at a discount.

My intent was to decipher the words on the order page, not contradict Todd's gun. The reason I say 10 gauge is in the following picture which I stole from Josh L's listing of the Meachem guns. The 8 guns were 10 ga. 32" barrel guns. See picture.

https://i.imgur.com/VzpZXwB.jpg

Looked like RGT, but you can see it better in person that we can in the two photos.

Dean,
I think you got it on the ditto marks, now that I look again!

If you look above the entry to A. Mahan, you will see where a gun had the Less 1/4 and the case for it was Less 20. I think these are discounts of 25% and 20%.

Hmmmm. Who might we know with those initials? :whistle:

I don’t know that I remember ever hearing your middle name:corn:

Oops, after quoting you, you’re name pops up with middle initial, maybe we have something going on here?

It looks like an "RGR"
Attachment 114250

Looking back at some of the hammer guns, I have owned, I believe it to be a 200.00 dollar grade gun, The 225.00 had more engraving, does it have a steel butt plate? Gary

It has a skeleton steel butt plate.

As it should for the grades above 3.





.

If I put this on Gunbroker, I will have to say not sure on grade, either 200 or 250 dollar grade.
I have no idea on value, I really don't know where to set the reserve.

Your reserve should be $4k, or whatever you paid for it, and let the sky be the limit...


Can you show the sides of the action, lock plates and floor plate or trigger plate in the frame??




.

I'll get it out a little later, and get some pics.

Hi Dean, I finally got a chance to take a couple more pics. Not very good quality, but you know I struggle with taking good pictures ;-)
Attachment 114482

Attachment 114483

Attachment 114484

Attachment 114485

Really nice!!

Thanks Todd for the pics!





.

The problem identifying these early S/N guns is that nothing had really been standardized until a few years later. Some of these old hammer guns had very sparse engraving, some had quite a bit more. The tear drop on the bolsters sure looks like it would be higher than a grade 3 but the gun in the order book (7720), when I looked it up in the stock book clearly shows D/3. The stock book entry for 3130 isn't any help. Roy Gunther when he copied and edited the stock books has this gun as having Laminated barrels and it's an 11 ga. gun. How he determined this I have no clue. Many of the errors in the Sterilization Book is due to this. He wrote in red ink "L", and "11" for steel and gauge. I did see in one of the pictures "11" on the barrel. Could it really be an 11 gauge gun??? The order book shows it as a 10ga. gun, the stock book (Gunther) lists it as an 11 ga. gun and Todd says it's a 12 ga. gun. Your deciphering of the order book entry for 3130 is correct. There are 2 small words or abbreviations which I'm pretty certain the first word is "old" by I can't make out the second word or it's an abbreviation. Both guns sold for $125 but that price only matches a $125 Dollar Gun grade with a 12ga. Damascus gun in the 1877 price list and that's before the 25% discount. Maybe they were trying to get rid of 3130 which was a higher grade gun and charged the price of a 12ga. grade 3.

Have I confused everyone?:bigbye:

One thing that may help is post a picture of the fore-end checkering pattern to see how many points it has.

"Many of the errors in the Sterilization Book is due to this."

STERILIZATION BOOK!!! SAY IT AIN'T SO!! :shock::eek:

Everyone who has the book could be at risk.

Thanks for the correction Mike. Next time I won't type so fast!

Here's the fore end, and the SS Butt Plate
Attachment 114492

Attachment 114493

11 gauge Parkers are one of the points of focus of Richard Hoover. He had cataloged several original 11 gauge guns.

D3 could have simply been the designation of 3-iron crolle Damascus barrels rather than the actual grade.

He really created a lot of obfuscation by his red entries, some of them were contradictory to the actual records.





.

That’s a beautiful gun.

Dean if your referring to D3 found in the stock book for 7720, it definitely means Damascus grade 3. What's your opinion on the "11" on the underside of the left barrel?