Unusual barrels
 

Please educate me on what’s going on with these found on a GHE in a local gun store recently.

Here’s a guess. Second set of barrels added by Remington at some point as indicated by the date codes?

Is it typical to have no rib markings on Remington barrels?

Late remington replacement barrels. Forend as well.

Yes

What you have here is something that I see as a plus. A gun that was factory refitted with new fluid steel barrels. The gun was likely damascus original. You now have a fluid steel set that are newer by a couple decades. The guns overall value was likely improved with the addition of those barrels. And anyone who knows what they are looking at knows that they were a factory job.

WL3 is a repair done in W = August L = 1942, probably when these late Remington barrels were added to this 1904 vintage Quality GHE.

The DW3 repair code doesn't make sense to me. D = September but W for a year code is 1928 too early, or 1972 too late for Remington doing Parker repairs.

Did Remington put the weep hole in?

That is what they did.

It looks, by the stamped circle with what looks like a V in it but not centered, to me like the barrels were originally manufactured in Meriden well after the gun was made, but were simply pit in stock with no serial number and with a blank rib and went to Ilion with all other spare parts, and the rest of the barrel flats and the rib were stamped by Remington at a later date.

…but this doesn’t explain the weep hole unless the ribs hadn’t yet been added.






.

It is just has an empty circle. No V. The circle was standard fare for most unfinished meriden built barrel sets. The steel type stamp was added in when the gun was being put together. That being the main support for the idea that Parker did not actually use different steel types for their fluid steel barrels. I think the only exception to this would be Parker Special Steel which just had the PS stamp with no circle.

Weep holes would be put in at the time of bluing.

And the OV barrels on the Trojans and the Whitworth barrels as well that were serial numbered at the Whitworth plant.





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From my observations I find the early Parked Spec. Steel barrels being marked P.S. on the barrel flat.

Attachment 113916

Beginning in the 204xxx range the handful of GH/GHEs I've recorded have the PS in a circle --

Attachment 113917

Attachment 113918

Attachment 113919

Attachment 113920

To add to the confussion of "Made in the USA", there are Belgian Export unfinished barrel proof marks on the left barrel flat shoulder !! The open end gauge oval with arrow ends and the remnents of the dancing lion are visiable

Photographed and enlargement of proof marks

It is nothing. Just some scratches.

Deadwrong Brian, hit the photo to enlarge. 3/4 oval gauge stamp with arrow ends clearly visable, also dancing lion stamp

I’m with Brian on this one.

If you see that, then good for you. You have a wilder imagination than most.

Do you read palms and tea leaves too?

I'm not taking sides here, but I definitely see the oval with at least one clearly defined "arrowhead" on one end of it. It's an odd "scratch" that forms a tiny perfect arrowhead on the end of an oval line. Just sayin'.

I see a puppy chasing cotton balls

Brian, What are you a two year old? the only thing imaginative with that reply is an over blown ego. If you dont see it just say you dont

Neither Parker, Remington, or anyone "re-proofing" barrels would put any stamping on Bearing Surfaces. Stamping is applied only in the relieved area between the lugs and the Bearing Surface.

I will also add that yes, tubes were imported for a lot of guns. Nearly all damascus tubes were imported as well as early high quality fluid steel. The TUBES were imported. Not assembled barrels. If they were marked, it would have been the TUBES. Ie: whitworth tubes had the whitworth markings on them. And after assembled, sometimes they remained and sometimes they didnt, depending on the amount of striking and polishing done to the barrel set. Parker assembled the barrel set in house meaning that the breech end, lugs and everything were put together and machined in the factory. There would be no markings left from importation left in that area. And as Edgar stated, that area of the barrels would never be stamped with anything to begin with.
And, in the time period that these barrels were made, the tubes were being completely made in house with the starting steel blanks coming from domestic sources in the NE USA.

No, I am not 2 years old. And ego has nothing to do with it. When I see something ridiculous stated, I call them like I see them. It reminds me of a recent example of someone claiming to see an engravers signature in some edge scratching of some scroll. It was also a ridiculous claim. I called him on it. He requested to whole thread be removed. An over-reaction, yes. I only assume it is because he knows his claims were incorrect.

I am done with this bickering over nothing.

Wrong on this one Edgar. put your good glasses on. Belgian barrels to fit Parkers have been imported by many people over many years, The Marks on the "Bearing surface" are Export unproofed barrel stamp and a Chamber and Guage stamp, so the end user knew what it was.

Brian, The only ridiculus claim is your know it all attitude. You really Dont know as much as you imply you do. You may be done, but you really are a piece of work, about as dull as your stock finish. If your not Man enough to carry on a conversation with out being a snarky little Know it all theres plenty of kids blogs.

HOw many more exaples of proof marks on bearing surfaces will it take?

I do not believe Remington ever imported Belgian proofed or non proofed barrels for use on Parker guns. I do believe these barrels were added to this gun by Remington. I could certainly be wrong, I often am.

And for the near sighted and narrow minded and those that do not read French
It says --Calibre and chamber legnth
Armes made for Foriegn Export

To my eye that oval you think you see is just the residue of a dried drop of lubricant that was squeezed between the barrel bearing surface and the watertable and dried up. I'd bet a bit of Hoppis and a quick scrub and it will disappear.

Maybe a Letter on this gun If there are records would help, I really hate to see what's going on here.

Look real close to the red lines, at both ends are arrows and that funny little thing on the left is an export lion stamp (1924-1968) also if you look inside the oval there is the number 1 and a non decipherable number next to it which would be the start of gauge and chamber stamps Hit the photo to enlarge

The barrels shown, which this thread started out discussing, are Parker made barrels, and the assumption is they were subsequently fitted by Remington, so why would that silly "dancing lion" be stamped on them. Your noted table indicates that mark is applied to export barrels for proofing.
I misspoke when I said Parker, Remington, and some other proof house, but I meant some other proof house proofing Parker barrels. The barrel flat photos you show are plainly not those of higher quality manufacture.

I'm sure you'll search out something to prove me wrong, complete with more acerbic responses, but I pay little notice to people who act like boorish prigs, who come on here and insult us as "nearsighted', and well respected members.

Nice respone Edgar, well respected is funny, tolerated is more acurate. The insults started with the kid that lives in his mothers basement and you jumped right in. Gentlemen admitt when they are wrong, others either try to change the subject or slink away. So far its 1 and 1. Have any other comments?
"The Borish Prig"

Wow...this went off the rails fast. I learned long ago to accept/value the wisdom from this fine group even when I was dissapointed with the answer. No need to instigate...there is another sxs forum for that...and most of us are not on it...

If you see that, then good for you. You have a wilder imagination than most.

Do you read palms and tea leaves too?
__________________
B. Dudley

And now you jump in?

Gary, I had to read between the lines and unrelated comments, but I'm now guessing your supposition is that the barrels, assembled, minus ribs, were made in Belgium, stamped as un-proofed, and sold to Remington. Is that right?
You didn't actually say that, and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just what I think you're saying.
What I originally said, I still stand with, that Parker and Remington would never stamp that location, is because, as seen in the first pictures, it's finished ground. IF (BIG IF) you're saying they were made by 'others' and sold to Remington, then it is entirely possible they were stamped there, as that surface had, as yet, to be ground.

Having said all that,(1) The WL3 code would almost certainly be when the barrels were fitted, But it's highly unlikely they were exported anywhere around that time, because of the WW2. (2) This was only 7 years after Remington acquired Parker, and we know there were plenty of already made barrels, made in Meriden, that went to Ilion, Remington had been making barrels at that time, and Remington sold Delgrego all remaining parts, which included Lots of barrels (1 1/2 frame being about the most commonly produced). Would Remington have stamped all the other information (in the relieved area) Such as unstruck weight, Parker material grade, HT over A, when they would have been heat treated and annealed in Belgium, and The Remington Version of the overload proof ?

Art Wheaton is probably the only person, because he worked for, and at Remington, who might know if any barrels were imported for relatively 'vanilla' guns because they still made their own (Though I don't think he worked there in the time frame these were added).

Soooo, I stick with what I originally said about them not stamping on bearing surfaces, meaning FINISHED GROUND surfaces.
Also, You are not right OR wrong, because it was your theory, not a known fact.
Lastly, the 'silly dancing Lion' doesn't match the image from your tables very well.
Last Lastly, Brian, in fact, does know his stuff, doesn't live in anyone's basement, and turns out one of the best stock finishes currently available to us.

This is a terrific forum and a great platform for the exchange of ideas and discussion. We all have our own opinions let's just respect each other and keep the exchanges on a professional level. We have one of the best forums in my view, let's all strive to keep it that way.

Mr Spencer
I* applaud*you for returning this post back to civility. Also i commend you on your command of the english language, funny, I'm getting hammered by a guy and his written eloquence*i find impressive.Now on to whats at hand. My original*post only expressed what I saw. I posted an enlarged photo and a copy from a Liege*proof book that i saw as being a close reference to the marks, nothing more or less. Some respondents expressed they did not see it, some did. End of story. Had not Brian Dudley taken this to a higher level two outcomes might have been forthcoming, My post ended with yeas*or nays or as your first sentence implies I may have inquired further if single barrel or rough assembled barrels were ever imported from Liege by Parker Bros or Remington. Truly the only authorities*on this matter may have been Babe and Larry DeGrego* At this point I see no interest in furthering this post as we have surely entertained*the troops sufficiently.
Sincerely
Gary Bodrato.
Addendum
But I am at total disagrement in your defence of Brian Dudley.

Not sure what your grudge is, Gary...but you seem to be insufferable. I lurk here regularly and appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge a lot of these fine gentlemen share with the public.

Please take your bullying elsewhere...