Have you ever noticed
 

When someone who don't know what they're doing when restoring a Parker that the gun becomes very ugly.

Yep.





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Like a kid with a chemistry set?

Sounds as if your frustration has gone to a high boil, but you don't want to name names.

At least show some of the damage or ugliness, so members can propose remedies.

I have no firsthand experiences just looking through the guns for sale on the internet

Or so we can never send our guns to those who would destroy them through their lack of skill.





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It is sort of a situation of “only when I open my eyes” do I notice such things.

It seems like that more and more.

I notice such 'inconsistencies' from original factory work almost immediately and as you say, more and more often.





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I think a good restoration isn't cheap and well, folks like cheap so they go with a guy who has never done it before, because they were cheap. Key word above being "Cheap".

You get what you pay for…

Low Cost = Low Quality.





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I see no problem with posting pictures of any gunsmith's work and naming the gunsmith. Oh, good or bad. Comments would not be required.

But that’s exactly the problem Bill. Unless the program prevented comment posts there would be any and all kinds of unwelcome comments.





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You know what I think would be the cat's ass? A little "clinic" put on by someone like Dean or Brian at one of the shoots that teaches people new to Parkers (and other SxS) what exactly is original or what is not, how to spot a refinish...etc. I remember the Parker dinner at Traditions last year Dean picked up a gun and said, "That has my vote it's all original high condition." I looked at it and it looked like most of the others for condition. I asked how you knew Dean, you said, "Look at a lot of guns..." I keep looking, still feel dumb as ever trying to figure out of the finish has been touched up or tubes blued again. The only thing I seem to be able to spot is a DelGrego case color or obvious mistakes. It seems the learning curve is steep (at least for me)

Andy - The learning curve isn’t necessarily steep, depending on how you want to learn. If you want to learn quickly you’re going to miss a lot of the subtleties that go into the final equation of whet constitutes originality vs a really good re-do. There are a number of things to look for but sometimes they just hint or whisper to you.
I don’t claim to be an expert but, like you said, I have looked at a LOT ( many hundreds) of guns and in time the ability to know what you’re looking at will come easily - but sometimes I still question my own opinion.

Thanks for the kind words of confidence.

Dean





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Something I have learned in my time of trying to do as accurate/quality work as possible is that a great many out there do not know and really do not care about it. They may say they do, or think they do, but their choices in the work done on their guns prove that they do not. Things like turnaround time or cost are the primary motivators behind their decisions. Or it is just plain ignorance.
And those are not the clients that I want. There are enough out there that DO care for me to have to deal with the ones who dont.

I've been looking at and buying Parkers for more than 62 years, but I'm still not qualified to put my opinion on this thread. The rest of you all continue on.

delete

Thanks for the response Dean. I guess I have no choice but to keep looking and acquiring :)

Dean, Brian, and all, thanks for all of the very educational comments. From discussions based on this and other threads, while there were differing opinions, it seems that Parker did not do any original cyanide cc'ing, and that del Grego may have used both bone charcoal and cyanide on certain Parker restorations, raising some question as to the value of those restorations done with cyanide cc'ing.... Does that seem to be a correct assumption from the discussion? Thanks for all of the information you provide.

The only cyanide coloring that is correct on Parker guns is the the top levers of Ilion made guns. Remington was having issues with the levers wanting to warp using the bone/charcoal process and they could not get it figured out. So they decided to cyanide color the levers instead since they had no issues using that process. This whole deal is documented through correspondence between ilion and former meriden employees such as James P. Hayes. So, to summarize, on these late guns, they will have bone/charcoal colors on all of the parts except for the top levers.

Delgrego chose to use all cyanide coloring on any guns they did once they got their operation going. And this was the case until about 15 years ago when they started having Turnbull color their guns for them.

If one feels that a delgrego restoration adds any sort of value to a gun, then so be it. That value would not be placed in the accuracy of the work.

I'm in the middle of a "screaming" bad gunsmith experience right now. Just plain shoddy work. This smith has royally screwed up a 12 ga. CHE for me after assuring me he was skilled at the desired work and competent to do the job. I was good with the 21 months to do the work and the price asked (he should not have promised 7 to 8 months as he did) if the job had been correctly done. It was not. On my first inspection about 14 or 15 months in I informed him in no uncertain terms this was not the results we had talked about and I absolutely expected. I left the gun expecting the issues to be corrected.
The gun shipped back to me mid December, my first chance to shoot it was over the holidays. VERY not good. I notified him immediately but was far too mad to have conversation at that time and indicated I would call him this coming week.
I would sincerely hate for any of our members or, for that matter, ANYBODY to end up in my current situation.
So, what is the consensus here on a photo spread, a history on the work to be done, and naming names? All thoughts and opinions welcome.

If a contractor messed up your roof, kitchen, bathroom or an Auto repair shop destroyed your car; Wouldn't you get the word out as much as possible? Tell your friends, leave truthful reviews. For the sake of saving others from the same ordeal. To open others eyes as to what is going on. Why are your firearms any different. Professionals are only as good as their last job.

Spot on Brian

It's kind of what's wrong with people today you can say all you want that's good, but God forbid you say something negative even though you have the evidence to prove yourself.

I say LET 'ER RIP Keith. You're doing a public service to other members. Granted some may say your gunsmith is just fine too, and that's OK. Multiple opinions are probably better than just one anyways.

Some internet venting can do a lot of long term damage to a mans livelihood, deserved or no. Perhaps it is best to keep the names under your hat. Photos and a discussion of the work would enlighten all. If someone was considering similar work then they might inquire privately about said mechanic. Just the thoughts of someone who makes a living with his hands.

I also am a craftsman and have made my living for many years building expensive equipment for an elite clientele. I assure all that my customers would let the world know immediately if I under performed!! As have all of us, I've had a few issues over the last 40 years BUT immediately stepped up, corrected any issues at no add'l cost to my customers and made profuse apologies. Everybody is a hero when things go well. One of my benchmarks for a vendor is how they act if there is an issue.

Well put.Mr. Beck. Courtesy, forebearance and respect are too often in short supply these days.

And if YOU get screwed John? Would the same apply? Or does that never happen?