Any ideas ?
 

Any ideas on the velocity and pressure of the old Winchester 12 gauge 3” 1 3/8 ounce as well as 1 5/8 ounce loads of Buckingham’s day ?

You wish they would put pressure on all boxes of shotgun shells. I don't think they ever have though.

In the Western Cartridge Co. Super-X booklets of the 1920s and early 1930s Capt. Chas. Askins states the velocity of the 3-inch Super-X is a bit over 1000 fps over forty yards. The 1941 Winchester Ammunition Guide gives the velocity over forty yards for the 12-gauge, 3-inch, Super-Speed, 1 5/8-ounce load as 965 fps.

Another shotshells ballistics chart I have shows the muzzle velocity for the 1 3/8-ounce load as 1295 fps and the 1 5/8-once load as 1200 fps. I have no attribution for this chart.

As for pressure they would be withing SAAMI Specs.

Actually, the answer is likely zero and zero. Those pre-war non-corrosive primers have likely exceeded their useful life.

Craig, the first box you picture is Nash Buckingham's favorite load. This full box will probably sell for hundreds of dollars if you put it in Ward's Auction. I have never seen this particular box sell on Ward's Auction or anywhere else, but then I don't get out much.

Both of Craig's boxes are the styles in use from 1933 to 1939.

Data I've seen shows the pre-War 12 ga/3-inch/1-5/8 ounce load at 965 feet AVERAGE over 40 yards, and the very same load did 1315 feet "muzzle velocity" after the War when electronic chronographs came into use. That second number is considerably higher than posted by Dave. Both as tested with number 6-shot.

Maybe the 965 wasn’t at the muzzle but out a bit ?

I’d be okay with 1300 at the muzzle !

That was the average velocity over forty yards.

Craig, as I had written and confirmed by Dave, the 965 was the velocity average over 40 yards. Velocity average was the industry norm back in the old days; note also that an average of 965 with 6-shot would be somewhat higher with ducking 4-shot, higher still with 2's, and less with 7-1/2's.

Happy to help a gent who moved one foot into the (Foxy) dark side. :rotf:

I loaded some 2 3/4” 1 3/8 ounce Monday with 800x it gave off a jolt first in a 28” Sterlingworth which I thought would lessen in the heavy HE . Not so much :whistle:

What!!! No replies from the savants about being kind to old dry wood? :rotf:

The HE in my possession is a restock so no old dried out wood :whistle: Of course not the case with the Sterlingworth .

Yeah Craig I was referring to the Sterly. You might want to keep in mind that the vintage 12ga/3-inchers were loaded with long obsolete single-base straight NC powders. The closest we can get nowadays is SR4756 which as you know is also obsolete but still can be found here and there. I personally haven't loaded any higher velocity 1-3/8 ounce loads in 12ga/2-3/4" hulls but if so I'd likely look for published data with SR7625 or SR4756.

I still have a goodly supply of 7625 . I’ll scratch around and see what I can find .

their rough on the shoulder and old wood but I like heavy loaded shells.... a 3 and half inch in 12 ga is as bad as they get...I have some factory 7 dram loads in the 8 ga I always figured this would be a stout load too... a 3 ounce load in a 10 ga magnum is a stout load also...charlie

One of THE worst I ever felt was from a Remington SP-10 I bought new , it was one of the LE-89 guns . Anyway sitting and patterning that SOB with 2 1/4 ounce Turkey loads , thought I broke my nose with that (I big time crawled the stock then) but it literally knocked the snot out of me . Second worst was a 5 1/4 pound Darne 20 gauge with plain old 7/8 ounce skeet loads . One of my 8’s with ten of the 000000 pellets isn’t for ladies or those with a weak constitution , but it is manageable .

I tested out a VH 16 with 1 1/8 ounces on skeet. After 25, I was sure I would never try that again.