Latest observed 0 frame 16
 

I have observed that, below sn 200K, Parker 16's are about half 0 frame and half 1 frame. After 200K, all I recall are on 1 frames. What is the latest folks here have observed?

The latest I recall is 183238 . The next question is why and my theory is they determined the 0 frame was a bit small and they got better at making 1 frames lighter, but who knows.

And since everyone loves pictures . . . Here is one from the 150K sn range:bigbye:

My personal 16 gauge research collection shows that 0 frame and 1 frame 16s are generally the same weight or close. One of my 1 frame 16s was made with a 00 frame stock, probably to arrive at a 6 1/4 pound weight without using a 0 frame.

I have noted that too. A recent 1 frame VH with 26" barrels handles better than most of the 0 frames I have

This sounds like a good exercise for another entry to "Parkers Found."





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I was thinking the same thing. I actually checked Parkers Found to see if there was an entry

This may be covered in Parker's 102 but how would one determine which stock size was used? Is that based on the buttplate or other measurements.

Mills, I'm interested in this. BTW, like Bill, I have found little predictability in the weight of 16s based on frame size. BUT, a 0 frame feels better in the hand to me (and I do a lot of carrying).

I have four 16s from the 1920s (200XXX range). They are all 1 frame guns. One weighs 6 lbs. 11 oz., one is 6 lbs. 10 oz., the third is 6 lbs. 5.6 oz., and the last one is 6 lbs. 10 oz.

I have 3 hammerless 16s from the earlier period you cite. Two are 0 frame guns, and the third is one a 1 frame.

I have two hammer 16s built on frame lightened 0 frames, but I assume you are not interested in these.

Thanks Garry! And sorry I missed you at the Southern, but that is easy to do at that event . . .

Are any of your 0 frames later than 183238?

Weights, factors determining weight and hammer guns might be good fodder for a future survey. To me, the narrower, more svelte 0 frames just look better

No 0 frames from later that 183238, but one of the 1 frame guns is in the 124XXX range. I can look up the exact serial numbers if you like.

You may be on to something...keep at it.

Aaron, buttplate size is definitely a criteria, as well as stock depth and width leading up to the buttplate. I know no one measures these dimensions, but they are different in different guns. A "clue" leading me to this conclusion is that my little #1 frame DHE 16 has a buttplate smaller than on either of my .410s. That DHE 16 #1 frame weighs 6 pounds, 4 ounces with 28" barrels.

1 and 0 frames were common up to some point before 200K and then all you see are 1 frames

I would be interested in knowing if 1 frame 12 gauges declined around the same time.
The oft posted gauges chart lists them both as "obsolete", a potentially interesting choice of words.

1 frame 12 gauges declined when the 1 1/2 frame was introduced.

Mills, I love the POW grip on that one.

Me too! I liked it so much, I used it as a model for a restock on another gun

Sure wish they had made more like that.

Back to the question at hand, what has everyone else observed?

Has anyone personally observed a 0 frame 16 above 183238?

Not a full gun but ....
 

Bought these 16 O frame ejector barrels a while back, Serial number is 194964 for a grade 4.

Those are cool! Too bad the rest of the gun is missing

They could be a good project or a second barrel set. They are 26" 3 lbs. with tight chokes. It seems to me that good barrel sets as well as factory wood are much harder to find these days so I snag them when I can.

I prefer 26" barrels for an upland gun but don't mind 28" either.

Have you measured the wall thickness? Do the bores appear altered or unaltered?

They seem to be original high condition with twin ivory beads. They could have been aborted during the damascus scare.

Very possible . . . and that makes you wonder what gauge were the new barrels?

The 0 frame would have more options for sure.

I wonder about the frame size vs weight on the 16, even on older guns.
This is #130909 a 16ga DHE with 26” Damascus barrels made in 1905, it is on a 1 frame and weighs 6#5oz.
My 0 frame 16 that is #171,000 range weighs 6#12oz but it has 30” barrels.

What a beautiful gun Dave!!





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Wow

Wow, thats a chubby one. I have a PH 20 O frame 28" thats a portly 6lbs 11 oz.

Mills, I found another in my safe that might lend some new information to your study. Its a GHE in the 194XXX range and is on a 0 frame. It has 28 inch steel barrels and weighs a whopping 6 lbs. 12 ounces...but still, it has that nice slim frame and handles well.

Now that is a nice looking gun Garry! You should tell and show us more about it.

The 16 gauge 0 frame on Steve Barnett’s site turned out to be a 1 frame .

That does not surprise me.

Like I said, after sn 200,000, I just don't see any 0 frame 16s. You really wish records survived to explain some production decisions made by Parker and the reasoning behind them

A few documents are probably around but they have probably been forgotten or possibly stashed.





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I'll throw some specs in to the mix. VH16 0 Frame, 28" barrels, 6lbs 6oz's. Handles like a wand. Ser#173347

That is not the latest observed here, but is among the later group. Sounds like a wonderful gun