Baker Batavia Damascus
 

Spinning off on "They are where you find them..." I was looking at a knife on Gunbroker, followed a link to the seller's other items and saw a Baker B grade for not much money, but not much condition either. So I followed that trail looking for more info on Bakers and ended up on GI where I found this Batavia Damascus in what I considered very high condition, and a 16 ga. with 30 inch barrels to boot. Less than a grand. After about 10 minutes of considering the pros and cons, I dropped the hammer. Then I did more research (cart before the horse?) and found the great Baker articles by Daryl and Drew and Dave et al. and pieced together that this is a Baker Batavia Damascus made between 1905 and 1909 and sold for $28 in 1907, when the Leader was $25 and the Brush gun was $24. A premium for the damascus. See what you think. It's too late for me, the gun is on its way. My only concern is that the stock may be a little too crooked. The pics are not mine, but from GI.

From the 1911 Baker Gun & Forging Co. catalog --

Attachment 104979

Any idea when they dropped the 10 gauge? I have looked at one before but the price seemed off and that was 2 years ago and it still hasnt sold.

That's about as good of an example that you will find. Congrat's I would have bought it weeks ago if I didn't have a couple similar to it in 12 ga. Those 16 gauge guns are really fun.

I have been watching that gun for a long time, was wondering why it had not sold...

Debated buying it several times, well now I don't have to worry bout it. Congrats!

None of the Baker Gun & Forging Co. catalogs or newspapers I have list the Batavias in 10-gauge.

A catalog said to be 1903 lists just the Batavia Leader with Twist barrels in 12-gauge only 28- and 30-inch. The next catalog I have, circa 1906, lists the Batavia Leader with Twist barrels and the Batavia Special with Homo-tensile steel barrels both in 12- and 16-gauge. The 1909 and 1911 catalogs show the Batavia Leader, Batavia Special, Batavia Damascus, Batavia Brush and the Batavia Ejector with steel or Damascus barrels, all only in 12- and 16-gauge.

The earlier version of their newspaper was called The Baker Gun Quarterly. No Batavias in the May 1900 issue. The February, May & August 1903, the February, June & November 1904 and the April & August 1905 issues show the Batavia Leader in 12-gauge only with 28- and 30-inch barrels.

The later newspaper was called The Baker Gunner. February 1906, shows the Batavia Leader in 12- and 16-gauge. The February 1907, issue shows the Batavia Leader, Special, Damascus and Brush all in 12- and 16-gauge.

did they make a 10 ga...charlie

From the Baker Gun & Forging Co. paper I have the A, B & Paragon Grade Baker Hammerless and the Baker Hammer Guns were offered in 10-, 12- & 16-gauge. The later guns, the R & S Grades and the Model Nineteen Nine Paragon, Expert and Deluxe were only offered in 12- and 16-gauges.

Baker Gun & Forging Co. seemed to be in a continual state of flux with management and offerings changing on a regular basis.

Heres the 10 gauge I was talking about.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101665911

That 10g is an absolute mess for the asking price of nearly $2,000.

A very poor replacement buttstock, the whole forend is not original, and it is from a Parker to boot.

Haha I never even noticed the forend looks very similar to my NH.
Probably a reason its been sitting for past couple years on GI.

Anytime I see a double sitting on GB or GI for years without selling I figure thats a good indicator they are asking too much. Then again I have seen cases where the guns then go to auction and sell for more than what they were listed for buy it now which is a head scratcher.

There are so many things questionable about that gun. As poor as those pictures are they don't provide any answers. The seller says Damascus, but the pictures, as poor as they are, look like Twist to me.

Got the gun; looks as nice as the pics show; no wear on the buttplate and all screws appear untouched. Drops were 1 3/4 and 3 as I suspected they might be. Stick on cheek pad will fix that. Shocker was the weight--the gun weighs 7 lbs 11.5 oz on my digital scale--3 oz heavier than my 2 frame 12ga GH! Bores were .658 each side, with 30 pts. choke on each. No pheasants for this gun--maybe I'll load up some Nice Shot 4's for ducks and sit in a blind with it, after I see how it patterns. My VHE 16 ga w/ 28 in bbls weighs 6-10.:) Anybody know what an "ADH" stamp on each barrel in front of the flats is? Maybe the Belgian barrel maker?

I'll bet Dr. Drew knows what the "ADH" means.

That is heavier than the catalog lists for the 16-gauge. I have a 16-gauge, 30-inch barrel, Baker Black Beauty Special Ejector that tips the scales at 6 pounds 12.3 ounces.

I have two 2-frame 12-gauge Parkers, one weighs a fraction of an ounce over nine pounds and the other weighs 8 pounds 3.2 ounces. My Grandfather's 3-frame 12-gauge weighs 8 pounds 8 ounces. Nobody did more with weight and balance than the Brothers P.

Dave, here are some pics of the barrel stampings. I also pulled the buttplate wondering if I would see a lead plug. Saw a wooden plug instead. Maybe lead under it? I'm not going to try and find out. It is what it is--a heavy 16 bore. What do they say? Carries like a 12, shoots like a 20?:rotf:

Forgot pics.

In this thread there were some talk and questions about a 10 gauge Batavia Leader for sale. It has a serial number in the 43,000 range, not a range in common with either most Baker Gun and Forging Company Leaders or the Folsom made ones. But, in the period of approx. 1915-1919 when Baker Gun and Forging Company was making fewer guns and more auto parts, there were a variety of double shotguns and single traps in all grades and models that are found intermittently in the serial ranges of 37,000 -51,000. Many of these guns could be "odd" models, made up of available parts. I think the advertised 10 gauge is just that. Damascus barrels were not listed on Leaders of that period. Note that there are no firing pin retaining screws, like the guns made in the late teens. I have recorded other Leader 10 gauges , just a few, near the 43,000 range, so it is rare, but not unique.

That fine Batavia Damascus in the discussion did weigh more than I had guessed, so I weighed a few of my 16 gauge Bakers . Here are the results.

Paragon from same period as the Batavia Damascus---7# 9 oz

Folsom made Batavia Leader--- 6# 13.5 oz

Batavia Hammerless Boxlock [Hollenbeck shaped frame]-- 6# 4.9 oz

I like them big or small heavy guns...charlie