Ruark on gauge for quail.....
 

One of my favorite writers of all time....

This from a guy who just bought a 20, eh?:)

I see he omitted the 28 gauge.

So, either he wasn't a fan of the 28 or he didn't know it existed. Personally I think it is the gauge of the older gentle man bobwhite or grouse and woodcock shooter, who knows his game and knows his own limitations and level of endurance. I'll take a 28 any day.





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I've NEVER felt under gunned or handicapped with the 28. To me the perfect gauge for whatever my dog can flush for me.

I have hunted wild quail since about 1962 with doubleguns. I now do not use larger than a 20 gauge. I use 28s on occasion but, IMO, a 20 gauge is just about perfect for wild quail. Nothing wrong with a 16, either. And, 28s and .410s are about perfect for released birds. Again, IMO.

A 26" 0 frame 16, carries like a 20 but hits like a 12.

Ya, but you have to be able to hit them with the 20, before you are excellent..... We will see, but I expect to shoot the new gun well. :)

Damn right Michael! I do like 28 ga, but never was all that enamored by them. I dont have a Parker , but shoot a Ugartechea 28 ga with 27" IC/M barrels and straight grip. Kill 3-4 grouse/yr and a couple pheasants(released). I have been wanting a 30" 28 ga, and may pick up a Dickinson.
Hunted quail on a SC plantation once and my 26" DHE 16 cyl/mod st grip 6lbs was the classiest gun out there. Actually ordered out of Georgia in 1905, so was probably a quail gun.

I do have a CSMC RBL 28 with 30" English grip and BTFE. It was one of the launch edition 28's. It took Tony 21 months to get it made. Absolutely a magic wand. I do need a Repro 16, 20 and 28. Gonna have to win the lotto for those.

Hmmm 28 works pretty well . Although this year I did use a 20 on one trip and a 16 on another trip . But if the 28 works for walk ups on pheasants (and it does) a quail is a piece of cake .

I have been wondering how range changes your quail load/gun needs or wants.
Before 2018 it used to be real close range shooting probably 10-15 yards, then hurricane Michael leveled most of the pine trees. Now you're looking at alot more wide open spaces.

I think this video shows the capabilities of the 28 gauge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcr5Bd0vQqU

I've debated buying a 28 for years.... Never have done it though, because "Pre Pandemic" ammo shortages aside, I always thought that a 20ga gun, with light loads is a lot cheaper to shoot, than the 28's and does about the same thing. I don't do enough quail hunting to really have a desire to own a 28. That said, it's still an itch I feel needs scratching at some point.

I do have a .410, but it's one of those new fangled Rem 1100 autoloading contraptions...

He's pretty much preaching to the choir here. Thanks for the video.

I would have to stick with the old 12 ga with 26 inch barrels im proved cly and full chokes...charlie

A great thread -- Thanks, Pat.

I propose that the best quail gun is one you shoot well and have confidence in; and that you use, preferably over dogs you've trained yourself, in covers you love.

I've used all gauges on quail except a 10. I only use a 12 when I think I might run into a pheasant (which is not often where we hunt).

I've probably killed more quail with a 28 than any other gauge, but mostly because I used one during those years when we had more quail.

I recently bought a nice Watson Bros. 28 with beautiful 28 inch Damascus barrels and it performed perfectly during the 3 or so weeks I used it this year.

A 16 with light loads throws wonderful patterns in the right gun, and a 20 -- well, let's just say it's a proven gauge.

Here's a couple of 28s that have served me well in the quail fields.

I recently bought a CZ-USA Woodcock Deluxe 20 gauge from a local fellow who had to give up shooting shotguns due to health issues. I am surprised how smooth it operates, not a hard spot anywhere. He thought he has shot it 1500 to 2000 rounds so it is broken in I suppose. I shot 25 rounds at clays in my backyard a few days ago and I think that little gun was built for me. I'm looking forward to really getting tuned in with it.

As I said, a great thread...

Here's a great 12 bore quail gun, a 29" Damascus barreled Dickson round action that weighs not much over 6 lbs and with chokes .008/.013. A delight to carry. I hope the "Great" Askins would approve.

With all due respect to you and Capt. Askins Harry he wrote in "Modern shotguns and loads", published in 1929 and I quote;

p86: "For personal reasons only I do not like a 12 bore except for waterfowl shooting. The normal gun weighs more than I like to carry, and it has unnecessary power for such birds as snipe, quail, woodcock and grouse. Any time the shooter begins to reason that he needs a lighter gun than seven pounds, take my word for it that he needs a smaller bore than a twelve."

I couldn't agree more.

Ha! Now that makes Askins even "Great-er" in my eyes now.:)

It might be worth noting that George Bird Evans after years of carrying Dr. Charles Norris’s Purdey in later years decided to lay it aside and carry an AYA 28 gauge . Now I think that was partly brought on by a bad shoulder , but none the less he still went to a 28 .

And, you, young man, have almost 30 years before you get to that point.:):corn:

We all know how quickly that time goes don't we? I bought my first 28 Parker exactly 50 years ago and we've become quite attached. The 28's will be the last to go.

I sold off or traded all of my 12 ga Parkers years ago. Now, only shoot 20's. I did buy a 28 ga but it's a Beretta 28 over/under. Very nice and fun to shoot. Have only shot skeet with it but will shoot quail this season with it. My longer term plan is to pick up a 28 ga Parker Repro when my financial stars align for me.

I should hope to make it to 90 :rotf:

I'm on a small gauge bent myself.

I am in midst of pairing down some of my nice guns, into fewer nicer guns.

A 28 may be in order, but I have to get my hands on my 20ga first. :D

I have a fairly nice 20ga O/U that I had planned to sell, and still might. But when I went down to my gun safe and pulled out to take pics of it, pulled it out of it's sock, then said, nope... not today..... :D I might sell one of my 12ga Citori instead......

I am doing the same thing. I am slowly putting together a pile to send on. Some I bought for my wife and she never shoots them, so those are easy.

Yes, you need a 20 and a 28 . . . and a 16 . . . and then lots of them

Next season I’m thinking some quail with a 410 needs to happen . I’ve been thinking this for the last two seasons but never followed thru . Won’t happen with a Parker 410 as I doubt I ever find one I’m comfortable affording . But I do have a rather nice little IJ Hercules straight grip and a somewhat beat up Crescent Arms that someone extended the stock . When I have my stuff straight I can hit with either pretty well .

I happen to think you can get by with a 16 and 28 for just about all bird hunting. There's something about a 28 kills pheasants like they got hit by a truck, and I do believe it's God's favorite gauge. Re-read Michael McIntosh's essay on them. I have a Repro 28 (that I admittedly don't shoot so well) and a Benelli Ethos Sport in 28, now that's a blast. It will smoke clays if I do my part. I had an old box of RST 1oz 1300fps 28g shells laying around (pigeon loads) and that Ethos just took the heads off roosters, and easy to carry at 5lbs and a few ounces. If we had quail I'd take a 28 over all others but that's just me. I cringe at all the aYa's and Uggie's I passed up years ago because they were "too expensive" to buy. Hindsight.

Keep eating well and hunting and you'll make it! You've got 30 more years...buy a Parker .410 on the payment plan.:)

Amen...too quickly.

Sir Joseph Nickerson, who died in 1990, switched from 12 bores to 20s later in life (1972, to be exact), then to 28's in his later years. He favored 13/16 oz. of no. 5's for high pheasant in the 20s, not sure what load in the 28s, and accounted for staggering numbers of gamebirds per day. He decried shooting close and low birds, favoring high birds and challenging presentations. His reason for going to the "little guns", weight. He said that as he grew older the 12s were just too heavy for him to lift all day, and that by conserving energy he could shoot better later in the day. He also pioneered the use of over and unders on the driven shoots of Britian and Spain, favoring them over the side by sides.

A true "big shot" of modern times, Joe accomplished feats equal to Lord Ripon, but with 28 bores. He shot more grouse in his last fifteen years than did Ripon (who used 12s) in his last fifteen. Ripon, who it is said took 97,503 grouse in his lifetime, killed 3435 grouse in his best year using 12 bores. Nickerson, in 1988, took 3390 with 28s, and over 3000 the previous year.

Joe was a great student of the shotgun, and went to great lengths to recover all shot birds. He knew his limits of range and stayed within them, striving always to center the birds head in his pattern. The center of the pattern is not much different between guages, but is deadly in all of them. Never having shot flushed pheasants (in the butt), I can see where the smaller guages would be more limited in range as compared to the 12. The rear of any bird is the toughest presentation to cleanly down the bird. But for the head-on and crossing driven game he chased the small guns suited him just fine.

I have a 28, a FAIR Verona with 30" barrels, and I shoot it pretty good. But, when I want to go small I go really small, down to my .410s. I have three .410 doubles, all with 30" barrels, one of them with screw-in chokes. They are the most fun on a dove field that you can have with your clothes on.

J. J. Pringle, "Twenty Years' Snipe-Shooting," records bagging 78,602 snipe over the course of his hunting career. Snipe being the hardest of all game birds to hit, IMHO. He accomplished this with light English 12 gauges.

As far as Bobwhite quail go, if I'm shooting pen raised birds then the 20 or 28 gauge is more than adequate. If it's wild birds I'm chasing then I'm not proud, I'll usually go with a 16 or 12. I'm just not that good of a wing shot and since I'm typically hunting off horse back, weight isn't a concern.

As an aside, AKC doesn't allow a gauge smaller than 20 in a retrieving call back.

As to the vaulted .410, great for training young dogs steady to wing and shot but that's about it for me.

Craig attended an auction a few short months ago where he turned down an astounding 28 gauge Parker fully optioned quail gun for short money. I was surprised. Of course, I'm as guilty as he, because I turned down Doctor Norris' Purdey quail gun for the same kind of short money, but a few years earlier.

Choke is a wonderful tool, if used properly. Choke constriction can make a small bore's pattern density the equal of a big bores', especially at the core. Density and individual pellet energy is what kills birds, not bore size. Four pellets delivered to the vitals of a dove or quail from a small bore have exactly the same ability to disable and kill as four pellets from a big bore, given identical pellet weights, construction and velocity.

The way the smaller bores can (and do) deliver the same density is by utilizing a greater amount of choke constriction. This, of course, decreases the overall size of the pattern which requires more skill in placing the pattern on the bird. Therein lies the challenge to the gunner.

I believe in the ethical taking of game, and over the years have scrutinized my ability to take small game birds with a .410 closely. I don't "stretch it" when it comes to range. My .410s, with my .73 ounce handloads of nickel plated 8s are solid performers out to 30-35 yards on doves, a bit less on quail, because of the need to drive pellets up through the body into the vitals, from the rear usually.

I don't look down on anyone who makes a rational and ethical choice of gun and loads for game birds or ducks. I love my 16s and 12s, and shoot the 12s more than any other gauge, by far. It just seems to me to be a big waste of resources and recoil when I see guns on a dove field, or in the quail woods, using 1 1/8 oz. of shot to kill a little bird of a few ounces weight, when 1 1/4 oz. will deck any big duck that ever flew. Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, of course, but I have watched this in amazement here, for many, many years. JMOBOE.

So very well said Stan. Sir Joseph is a man that I would have loved to share a dove field with. I know not every one takes shooting a shotgun as seriously as you but my firm belief is that if you are going to take a gun into the field to pursue game you owe it to your quarry and yourself to be as proficient as humanly possible to make clean kills. That requires burning a lot of powder during the year and not just the week before the season opens.

One obstacle to my getting a Parker 410 is that money could buy another Parker 28 gauge with money left over.

The older I get, the more I like full chokes

Ruark also said this:
Attachment 105014

Enough is one thing. Too much is another