RST shortage, and other 2-1/2" shell sources?
 

Has anyone any information regarding RST's shortage of shell components? I'm running severely low on 2.5" 16 gauge shells for my Parker VH and am starting to wonder when or if they'll be getting more of what I need back in stock. Does anyone here have other source recommendations for Parker appropriate 16 gauge shells? I do not reload.

Wouldnt surprise me if its awhile on 16 gauge components id say it probably falls behind the 10 and 28 gauge. Reloading shotshells only requires the basic of tools most important probably being a scale. Might want to secure some 16 gauge hulls while you can though no telling when they will be back in stock. Another option is gauge adapters.

I sure hope it is not too much longer. I am not holding my breath either

Stop wondering and go up on their website. They are out of stock of almost everything due to a critical shortage of components. Call them directly and tell them what you want - they'll let you know immediately if they have it or not. "Deal Direct", as they say.

My understanding is they can't get the type of powder required to load low pressure shells. That said a phone call to them would get the most up to date info.

I don’t imagine it’s high on any powder manufacturer’s list to produce the kind of powder we need.






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Parker appropriate 16 ga shells are made by Federal, Winchester , Remington , Fiocci , Herters and RST. I just bought two cases of recently made Winchester 1 oz loads.


On another note , I just ordered and received a case of Remington STS 12 ga and a case of Federal 12ga paper hull loads.

2 1/2 dram equivalent, 1 ounce, 1200 fps 16 gauge loads, as Bruce Day says, are appropriate for fluid steel Parkers. They are hard to find these days, but not as hard to find as RST.

It is unnecessary to limit cartridge selection to 2 1/2 “ expanded shell length. We have been through that concept many times here , explained the insignificant pressure increase and real cartridge lengths. A search of previous comments here will show likely hundreds of explanations.

I use these commercially available 16 ga cartridges in a variety of guns ranging from 1880’s hammer Parkers to late Parkers , Lefevers and Brownings, Damascus , Twist and fluid steel, grades P through A .

I bought most of a case of 1 oz Winchester 16's recently. The recoil is a little stiff but they work

The 1oz Winchester loads are pretty easy to find online they are currently around $150/case, I am seeing them in #6 and #8 shot.

The "good Samaritans" at our last local gun show were offering 16 ga. Remington 1 oz. Game Loads for $225 a flat (10 boxes) mostly in #6 shot.

“Good Samaritans” = opportunists.





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Remington dove and quail 16 gauge 1oz loads actually measure 21/4" unfired and 21/2" fired. I have shot them in damascus and fluid steel guns. Perfectly safe and you can find them at Walmart for $7.79 per box.

Alas, there are no shotgun shells of any kind at our local stores. I'm glad I don't shoot that much and have a fair stash of RSTs.

Could this be a good side to low bird numbers?:crying::banghead:

I have a stockpile of RST 20 and 28 gauge. I am taking bids. PMs only. :whistle:


Just kidding! I do have a bunch of both those gauges but I plan on using them all.

There are always those who claim that Remington 1 oz 1200fps shells produce much more recoil than RST 1 oz 1200 fps shells. RST uses slow burning powder ( PB?) which lengthens the period of pressure but does not reduce the peak pressure. Because the length of push is longer it is often perceived as less than shorter duration loads when the recoil energy is the same. Recoil energy is of course not the same as, but related to , chamber pressure. Chamber pressures for all these loads is below SAAMI maximum.

Of these different brand cartridges, which produces the greatest foot pounds of recoil ?

Without calculations I will guess Federal . Which i use some.

looks like the rst. Is there a prize?

So what are the pressures of all these

I'm with Aaron. Do we get to split the prize?

1 oz payload at 1200 fps

There are many recoil calculators on the internet to use. All of them require the weight and velocity of the mass of everything that goes out the barrel over the mass of the gun. So , with that in mind And assuming the weight of the test gun is constant and the weight of the gas propellant and wad is roughly the same , the faster loads have more recoil. We have said that these are all 1 oz loads , so your choice to reduce recoil is to shoot a load with less fps or use a heavier gun. So the Remington and RST loads have the same recoil energy with 1200 fps and the others have less , with 1165 fps, etc.

Note that chamber length, angle of forcing cone , choke , size of shot , and design of the wad have nothing to do with recoil foot pounds.

This is correct, its really a simple physics problem. every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Sum of the energy in the longitudinal direction must be equal. The energy going forward being "pushed" off of the breach of the gun if you will, is directly absorbed by trying to move the mass of the gun and then your shoulder/buttplate or pad backwards. forcing cone, choke size, etc all would be in the radial direction and as such would be reacted against by the barrel, which in turn "pushes" back on the expansion of the gas and thats what causes things to go out the end of the gun.

Of course, you could make the philosophical arguement that eventually the barrel becomes so constricted the physics changes (squib loads and stuck wads)....but that only happens when the barrel reaction stresses can not contain the rapid expansion and thus you see catastrophic failure. The equations necessary to model this are highly complex due to the extremely short period of time it takes place in, you've departed classical mechanics and entered into the world of trying to model this as an energy strain relationship system, through some FEA or similar.

Source: My college research paper on system design which I wrote on load considerations to optimize the weight of the modern shotgun.

One thing I appreciate from rst is the variety of offerings. Low pressure or not, I dont frequently wish to shoot 1 oz at 1200 fps. 3/4 or 7/8 in the light gun

At your price point Harry, that should tell you something!

Or conversely, as Frank Zappa put it, "Could this be Phase 1 of Lumpy Gravy?"

I know this thread has taken a slight twist off of the original topic, but as long as we are here, I have a couple of questions. Does the acceleration of the shot charge leaving the shell until it leaves the barrel vary from load to load? Is there any recoil associated with this acceleration, or does no recoil occur until the charge leaves the muzzle? Just wondering.

Recoil begins at the instant of ignition.





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I disagree. Harry's shells were priced right while at the VGC and I would have jumped on his 16's but I had/have plenty and I mean plenty of RST and black Remington Game loads on hand. That was 3 months ago and what fellas might have thought was priced a little high at the VGC would probaby be gobbled up today ..... cash money, no tax, no shipping charge.

If memory serves I got two boxes of Remington plastic 16's for all of $25.00 cash & carry from Harry at the VGC in September. A great hunting load, Shur Shot field loads with 1-1/8 ounce and 2-3/4 DE (1185 speed). He had many more but the 2 boxes will last me a while.

Bingo

They're out there for much less than $150 a flat, shipped and with tax. Get a teen to do the search. No joke.

Gladly...

Kevin, I am impressed that you know FZs work!! :)

Last Fall I was on Ammo Seek and found Fiocchi super target 12 ga for $49.99 a flat. I figured at that price I would order enough for the two other gentlemen that I shoot with. I ordered 12 flats and when I went to the shipping phase I was shocked to say the least. The shipping was $395.00. I thought that the vender's web site had a glitch so I waited until the next morning and called. The vender was Red River Outfitters. When I conveyed what I had experienced all the man I was talking to said was, "that's the way things are nowadays. They were making up the extra cost of the ammo with an astronomical amount of shipping. Needless to say no order was placed.