duck shells
 

what duck loads are you using...I use to use steel shot but aint able to go now was just interested in the shells...I used a lc smith 3 inch long range gun that had a set of modified choke both barrels the steel never done any damage to the barrels.....don't go duck hunting if you don't want to get hooked....charlie

In my opinion, you MIGHT be OK if the shot size is no bigger than 6. Bigger than that with modified chokes could be a problem. My duck gun is choked IC

I have used plenty of steel, hevi shot, and wingmaster in a similar lc smith, had the chokes opened and noticed no issues. No bulging, no scouring, no streaking.

I have switched to boss bismuth because i believe it is the best available option but be wary if your gun is thought to be fussy about "low pressure".

I only shoot bismuth through my vintage guns. Low pressures, light loads, only shots within range. I'm a "sometimes" duck hunter, and a duck or two is enough for me. My stash of bismuth will probably outlast me. :)

Bismuth is #4 shot has been very effective for me on ducks.

I found some Rio Bismuth at my favorite hunting store, the Outpost in Ridgeland. I bought two boxes for me and Harry. We used the two boxes with such good results, I went back and cleaned them out of what they had left.

Boss has a lower pressure 2 3/4" Cu plated bismuth load that I'll be using in some of my lighter vintage doubles. I'll be ordering another case of the full pressure loads as soon as they catch up with inventory a little. I also load regular bismuth myself. If weather, or conditions, are really bad I use my 30" BSS with steel. Chokes have been opened to .018" and .018". No issues with steel in the last 11 years with it.

I keep hearing about Boss shotshells being copper-plated bismuth, but I can’t find any evidence to support. I searched their website for “bismuth,” and received no results. If they really are using copper plated bismuth, as opposed to copper plated steel, why don’t they just say so? They heavily advertise the plating composition (copper), but say nothing about the composition of the underlying substrate.

-Victor

Victor you are right. Very little advertising on their shells when it comes to Bismuth. I checked a box of shells a friend gave me and no where does it say Bismuth. Only non toxic.
I did find under FAQ on their website the mention of using Bismuth.
I have not tried these shells yet. Hopefully after Christmas. The friend that gave me this box to try has shot ducks on several hunts. He thinks they are the best non tox shells he has used.

Another friend of mine guides for quail and had 2 hunters that shot Boss non tox shells even though that is not required for upland game in AZ.
He felt the shells performed well on the quail they shot.
These hunters told him they have been using the Boss shells exclusively this year for all of their upland as well as Waterfowl. They had nothing but high praise.

victor
Thats very interesting. I know they rolled out a new website this summer and I see they scrubbed any reference to bismuth. ODD. The pellets I have are copper plated and VERY soft. I hit one on the anvil and it all but dissapeared, paper flat with no fracturing. The Bismuth sold at balistic products exhibits some fracture around the edges but still works just fine. I have had occasion to use the boss shells less than I thought but found the #5 worked nicely at reasonable range.

From the FAQ on the boss site.

Q. WHAT MAKES YOUR BISMUTH BETTER THAN OTHER BISMUTH LOADS?

A. By surrounding our bismuth with a thin layer of copper, there’s significantly less pellet fragmentation vs. unplated bismuth. Copper plating also lessens pellet drag when entering the meat. This gives you 15% better shot penetration for quicker, cleaner, more ethical kills.

Q. WHY IS BISMUTH BETTER THAN STEEL?

A. With bismuth weighing in at a massive 9.6 g/cc vs. steel at a mere 7.8, bismuth just smashes harder. It also penetrates deeper—and both factors help significantly decrease crippling.

I use Kent Matrix 3” shells for waterfowl. They work real well.

Ask, and ye shall receive .......

I called them and the girl on the phone said they did not make any low pressure loads. So, given that a previous poster referredto low pressure loads, whats up here? I really want to get some for my Damascus guns.

I have used Boss shells on bunches of geese. I have never lost a hit bird. Missed a bunch but never had one sail. I would not use them in a vintage Parker out of respect for the wood.

From their website. They don't list pressures but here is what they say about their ammo.

QUALITY LIKE NO OTHER

A GLIMPSE INTO HOW WE CONSTRUCT OUR SHELLS AT BOSS

When we develop our non-toxic Copper Plated BOSS loads there is a good deal of behind the scenes work that goes into making the best shell in the game. We don't have a massive ballistics lab with white coat scientists and a full compliment of lab donkeys to do the grunt work. Every shell is built for a specific purpose — to deliver devastatingly lethal payloads at a price that won't break the bank. Pretty simple. Here are the steps that it takes to develop a new load.

Powder selection (shape of the pressure curve vs. velocity and resulting pattern uniformity), then a velocity test at 70F, then a pressure test at 70F, then 30 yard pattern testing, then 40 yard pattern testing, then 50 yard pattern testing, then velocity testing at 0F, then pressure testing at 0F, then 30 yard frozen pattern testing, then 40 yard frozen pattern testing, then 50 yard frozen pattern testing, then we fine tune and dial it in. Did you get all that?

Once we are relatively satisfied with what we have, we will fine tune the load to make the final adjustments, repeat the tests again, lock the formulation in and send it to production. Then we begin to obsess over the hot/cold data to narrow the gap between the temperature extremes that yield the most consistent performance. In the world of shotshells, it is safe to assume that velocities and pressures drop when the weather gets cold and the combination of primer choice, powder, powder charge, wad selection, payload, crimp style and finishing technique all play critical roles in the cold weather performance.

In this stage of the process, we will take the load and start reducing the powder charge by .1gr and re-run all of the previous tests again. We will continue to back down the powder charge .1gr at a time until we establish a trend, most of the time the data falls onto a graph that makes a straight line. Less powder equals less velocity and pressure. We also re-test by adding powder .1gr at a time and this is where it gets cool. We see velocities increase in a near linear fashion and then they will begin to flatten, but the pressures will continue to rise. We look for the point at which adding powder no longer adds velocity and if the pressures are acceptable — we then continue repeat this process with frozen shells. Heavy powder charges can get tricky in cold weather because in general, the more powder you have the harder it is to light. Anyone ever had a dud in cold weather…

At BOSS, our favorite part of the shell construction comes next — the crimp. We prefer the tried and true 6 petal fold crimp (more petals = tighter patterns and higher pressures. While the depth of the crimp affects the pressures across all temperatures, it is our belief that the true benefit of crimp depth and taper provide the most benefit in cold temperatures. The deeper crimps, larger tapers take more time to open and the resulting pressure that is created is higher. Higher pressures in cold weather allow for clean burning performance that won't shut gas autos down during late season hunts. Crazy part is, most of our customers will go an entire season without cleaning their guns when they use shoot BOSS.



Q. ARE THESE SHELLS SAFE FOR OLD GUNS?

A. Not only yes, but hell yes.

Given copper-plated BOSS is softer than steel, it’s 100% safe in those vintage barrels. Since the rollout of our shells, we’ve watched a massive resurgence in classic shotguns and we couldn’t be happier about to see Grandad’s guns back in the blinds. The classics got that way for a reason.

That is confusing, Bruce. The young lady I spoke with was very knowledgeable about them and confirmed that they did indeed have some lower pressure loads. They were loaded with fiber wads as opposed to the plastic shot cups that the regular ones are loaded with. She told me the pressure range of them and said the fiber wads are the reason the pressures are that much lower. I ordered a bulk box of 200, size 5s, right then and they were on my front porch two days later. I have patterned them in my Super Fox and in my 3E Smith, and they pattern somewhat more open, as the lady said they would.

I've no explanations as to why the lady you spoke with would say that, unless they have been discontinued due to the problems all ammunition companies are having keeping up with orders. It would seem sensible that, if you can't keep up with demand in general, you might drop the least ordered loads you have. Maybe to satisfy your curiosity you should call back and ask if they ever have offered any, with the fiber wads.

All this makes me sound like I made it all up, which causes me a bit of consternation, knowing what I do and having about 180 of them on hand.

BTW, this was how I learned about them in the first place, dated 11/2020, from a discussion on the DGS forum:


Re: Prices on 2.75" Kent Bismuth by the case
BrentD #584516 11/18/20 12:49 AM
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somwers in Jawja
Originally Posted By: BrentD
The Boss people were quick to get back to me, and I will just post their reply in full.

Quote:
Hey Brent,

That plastic hull load has a pressure of 10,500psi and our Fiber wad hulls have a pressure of 8500psi.

We don�t have the Fiber wad shell on our website, but did make this as a lower pressure load than our standard load for the low pressure guys out there.

What pressure do you need or want to hit?

Thanks,

Zach


Thanks for posting that, Brent. It piqued my interest enough that I emailed them to get further info, and pricing, on the 8500 psi loads. They sent an automated reply back saying that they're overwhelmed with requests for information and it might be a few days before I receive a personal reply. crazy

Sounds like a load I would be very interested in. I asked if they are in paper hulls, as well as having fiber wads, because of the extreme reduction in pressure (a 2000 psi drop). It will be interesting to hear back from them.

Best, SRH

I was just telling Charlie last night I saw tungsten matrix for $10/lb while the bismuth on rotometal and BPI was around $16/lb.