General consensus of repro values
 

Seeing how well the reproductions did at Rock Island, what’s the general consensus on values of these?
From what I can see they are not eligible for use in the Vintage Parker events.
Is the value in these as a beautifully well made gun, just not a Parker?

Well, exactly how well did they do at RIA? Can you give us a list of features, gauges, and prices so we can comment? A few years ago, a 28 two barrel set with good features sold on gunbroker for ten thousand dollars. I think things have settled down a bit since then. However, today a 28 with one set of 28" barrels, double triggers and condition may sell for more than seven thousand. Twenties, some down in the fours. In my opinion, the Repro is the greatest gun to be made in the last fifty years. It's just great that you can still buy one almost forty years after the last one was made.

Here you go Bill.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34943

I guess I estimated fairly correctly with 20s down in the fours and a good featured 28s up around seven. It won't be long until those 28" double trigger guns are all gone to collections. So far, so good but they are hard to find. I think I had to pay over seven for a 28 gauge double trigger 28" gun to complete an identical three gun consecutive number set. Of course the guy bidding against me wasn't completing a set, he was just buying a scarce gun.

I remember going into Jaqua's after the liquidation sale was over and they had what they had left stacked like cordwood in the center of the floor. Your choice $1895. I think they went even lower eventually. They had what I would estimate to be a big pickup bed stacked full.

I always wanted a 28, but all you could find was short barrels and single triggers. Plus, I considered them really heavy for a short barrel 28.

I would probably buy them all now if I had a time machine.

Were they not that popular when new to sell for $1895? Or was that a stress sale to get them sold?

Someone may correct me but I think when word got out that parts were almost unobtainable buyers became a little nervous and sales went down.

Having "lost" the production facility in 1989, other manufacturers worldwide were sought, but it was found that the cost to have another facility produce them of equal quality would not allow for a decent return for the investors -- even if they were to charge $10,000.00 (~$22,300.00 equivilency in today's dollars) for a single gun. Post 1989 sales had slowed to the point where they were closed out starting in 1995, prior to that they last retailed at $3370. Here's an ad for the closeout:

The closeout, beginning in 1995, occurred years before most parts were lost to a 1999 hurricane and the subsequent flooding of a warehouse in which the parts were stored.

I find it interesting that the 12 gauge guns required an additional $100 premium over the 20 and 28 gauge guns.

-Victor

After owning a 12 and 20 gauge, I prefer the 20 for the way it handles and shoots. The 20 is a magic wand on clays, it feels like part of me.
Same with a Superposed, much livelier gun in 20 gauge.

Most people see the 20 gauge Repro as an overweight gun. The slow sales in the closeout was the result of having only 26" guns in one barrel sets. To get 28" barrels, you had to order a two barrel set. Double triggers were only available in two barrel sets and only from selected dealers. The only dealer who had double trigger guns was Guns Unlimited. Jaqua's and Don Shrum did not have much at all because they were the most popular dealers and they sold out fast. You had to be fast on the phone to get what you wanted. The 12 gauge required a premium because they made so few of them and there probably weren't many of them available at closeout time. When I called Guns Unlimited to ask about a double trigger 28, the lady said she had three and that was it, two barrel sets only, straight grips and beavertails. Shrum and Jaqua had nothing. She volunteered to open all the boxes and pick the best one for me. I didn't have the good sense to tell her to send me all three.

Looking at the Rock Island sale,it appears to me that small gauge original guns went less than I would expect and repros brought more than expected.Bill is correct in saying that when the Japanese closed the factory the folks at Parker Repro looked at Italy,Belgium,and the UK for a manufacturer. I think the cheapest quote they got was $10,000 their cost. That is why I used to tell my customers to forget that it is a Parker. Where else can you buy a nicely engraved boxlock ejector in a case for under $5000. They are great values.

No idea if it was a stress sale (I doubt Jaquas was stressed but they are still going gangbusters) but I personally think they were not very popular at that time, no matter what the reason.

When the Parker Reproduction was first introduced I wanted one in the worst way!... but at that price it was nearly impossible to come up with that kind of money and raise a family and maintain a home. I eventually bought my first Repro twenty years ago. For what they are they're the very best deal out there. Used Repro's can compete with any new gun in the same price range.





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I agree with Dean about the $3370 original retail being a bit high for bottom feeders. However, when the closeout was advertised, the price was more in line for many buyers. However, the most coveted options were long gone and sales did not pick up. However, in today's world, a 26" single trigger 28 gauge for $1895 looks pretty good. Those who bought them at that price are very happy with them. A couple of years after I wrote the check, the deposit on my BHE .410 0000 frame was refunded. At the time, I didn't own a Repro of any kind.

As a matter of reference I paid $4500 for a very good condition 28g Repro in the case, one trigger, one set of barrels 2 years ago. I would jump all over that today.

I bought a brand new in the case 28 gauge a couple years ago for $4100. I thought it was too nice to shoot so it just sat. About a year later I listed it for sale on the forum and didn’t get any takers. Put it on Gunbroker and it sold right away. I even made a couple hundred. One of the relatively few times I didn’t lose money.

A good friend used to own a gun shop doing mostly Browning. He was approached shortly after the launch of the Repros and the ballpark price he was told to sell them for was $2400. He backed off because at that time it was high. He thinks he recalls his cost being near $1800-1900 which is close to the Jaquas price. Problem was he had to buy a boat load of them and couldn't afford it. That being said, to have doubled his money (or a more) now, 25 or whatever years later, it doesn't look like it was a great long term investment. I don't know anyone who got rich buying guns. At least they aren't as bad as race horses.

In June of this year I picked up a 28 gauge Double Trigger Repro DHE with Q1 and Q2 chokes with 26" barrel in 99.5 % plus condition with the case for $4,900 on GB. Not sure how scarce that was, but it was the chokes I wanted for hunting Woodcock/Quail in Va. I had been looking for a long long time. PS. I set my bid at $5K and went to bed as the auction ended after 11 PM.

I have always held out for 28" Repros, but variety is the spice of life and maybe I would be up for a 26" gun like Tom found. A 28 gauge double trigger 26" gun might be my next find. Pistol grip or straight, doesn't matter, but my previous Repros have been straight grip. How many of these things do we really need? Maybe I should add a single trigger Repro to my collection.

IMO, 28ga. 26" Repros are under-valued and 28ga. 28" Repros are a little over-hyped. The mantra has been the 26 inchers are whippy -- mainly because they're so light, some theorize that a beavertail forend to the 26" guns adds enough weight to counteract the whippiness. The 28" barrel length is a cure-all. I don't buy any of that. I maintain it's the way one shoots the gun that carries the lions-share of difference regarding any whippiness and feel of the gun. I own and shoot two different 28ga. Repros, a 26" IC/M, SG, SPL, DT single-set carry gun for hunting and a 2-bbl. set 26" Q1/Q2, 28" M/F, PG, SPL, DT gun for targets. (I prefer a straight grip over a pistol grip as a carry gun and I prefer a PG over a SG as a target gun). Over the past several decades I estimate that I take ~500 shots at a clay target for every shot I take at a game bird and have found that if I shoot like I'm on a turret, swinging and rotating strictly as one unit from the waist up, I have no preference of barrel length -- 26" and 28" barrel lengths feel about the same. It's when I get armsy and handsy will I notice whippiness of a light and short barreled gun. In addition, for those hunting woods birds will find that a 26" Repro will be handier, lighter and nothing short of pure joy to carry.

YOMV.

I concur on all points Greg.





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Jim Tyrell brought a new 28 gauge 26” IC/M and a new WIN 23 Classic 28 gauge to the NSSA shoot at my club along with some other stuff for sale . This was when they first hit the market . He was asking $2400 for the Repro and $1400 for the 23 . I fingered both quite a bit that Sunday . Monday I went to the bank got cash drove to Fairfax R&G where Jim was the manager and bought the 23 . Wish I’d bought the other but that was then and this is now .
And no I don’t have the 23 it went down the road within three years of when I bought it.

Craig, the same Jim Tyrell sold me a nice DHE single trigger straight grip beavertail 26" 12 gauge for real short money. The gun had been sold by HC from Texas and represented as a skeet gun. It was made years before skeet had been invented and the barrels had been cut. I still have that sweet little "skeet gun".

I think I heard that both the Repros and the 23’s were made in the same factory in Kodensha Japan, is this correct?





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If memory serves Tyrell left Fairfax in the mid 90’s and went to MT to run a club . Not to long ago I “heard” he was in Houston managing “The Greater Houston Club” . He took a little getting to know but was always a decent fellow to me . I know I bought a veritable truckload of loading components from him . Also a few guns , sold him some guns as well . AJ Beard had a LNIB Kimber 89BGR 280 REM Super Grade in Jim’s shop at Fairfax on consignment . I bought that rifle and hunted with it for about ten years and killed a huge pile of deer with it , kinda wish I had it back :banghead:

As a general rule on typical price ranges, I would say this.

12g $3-3500
20g $4-5000
28g $5-7500

If any of those can be had for less than those ranges, it would be a good buy. And things like double triggers and multi barrel sets would add value.

Sounds about right . I seem to remmember something along those lines.

Olin Kodensha was Winchester's factory, opened about 1976, to make the 101.

edit: Google says Olin Kodensha opened in the early 1960s, but the 101 began about 1976. If memory serves, the Super-X was briefly made in New Haven, before it too went to Japan. My dad had one of the New Haven guns, but I sold it, for better or worse, because I hated all the click clack, especailly being a southpaw.

Yup, I knew it was Winchester's factory and was originally(?) opened to produce the 101 but I wasn't sure about the 23 being made there other than what I had "heard".





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Edgar:
I do not think the Super-X was ever made in Japan. Strictly Conn. I do know the folks at the plant joked they should include a $100.00 in every gun box because that was at least what Winchester lost on each Super-X produced. Might want to check with a Winchester guy.

I have one and it is a killing machine at sporting, trap and skeet. I have several barrels.

Just my remembering's.

I bought a pair of 101's in 1976 from Winchester Far East Ltd. They had them on sale for $250 ea, against an advertised list of $339 but I have no idea whether they were newly made or just new old stock. Much later I bought a BC Miroku 20 made at the Koshi factory that had virtually identical engraving to the 101's. My assumption was that both factories, Koshi and Kodensha, farmed out their engraving to the same contractors. Any other thoughts?

Edgar I believe 1964 was the first year of production for the 101. The first two years it came out in the red and black plaid box and had the red W on the grip cap.

Olin Kodensha built the 101,the model 23,the model 201 classic doubles,and Parker Repro.
If you look closely at the 201 classic doubles,they are a combination of the 23 and Parker Repro. Good guns but got lost in the shuffle after Olin shut down.

Well, I'm batting 0 today. I confess my knowledge of Winchester smooth bores is lacking. I did call the guy who bought my dad's Super-X and asked him why he asked me if it was Japanese. He said he was certain the receivers were made in Japan, which I interpreted as the gun being made there. I do recall my 101 coming in the plaid box, which may still be in the attic.

Dean that is correct. Olin-Kodensha built both guns as well as the Golden Eagle O/U's. They also did the Winchester 101's in the various models as well as the Nikko line. They also built the Classic Doubles line of sxs as well. I was stationed in Japan when they were all being built in the 1980's. Unfortunately they would not sell me any of the Parkers although I could buy the Winchester 101's and model 23s. Browning also wouldn't allow us to purchase the BSS or or Citori line either (built by Miroku). SKB would allow us to purchase their line of guns which included Weatherby O/U's in all the various grades.

Edgar:
Still pretty sure even the receivers were made in The USA. I will try and contact a Winchester buddy of mine.

I was always under the impression Super X’s were made totally in the USA and took a good bit more machining hence the higher retail price and probably the main reason they weren’t made anylonger than they were .