Chamber Pressure
 

Hi, this is my first post here. I have a 1930 16 gauge VH that my Father gave me when I was 16. I say he gave it to me when I was 16, that was when he let me know that the gun was mine. He wisely waited about another 10 years to let me take full possession of it:)

Anyway, it is my most treasured firearm, as it was his, and I have just gotten back into more regular shooting and reloading. I have been catching up on all the changes in components that have taken place in the last 15 years as I gear back up for loading 16 gauge shells.

I have been reading a lot about the danger of higher chamber pressures in "vintage" shotguns. My gun is in beautiful condition, no rust or pitting, Vulcan steel barrels and a #1 frame. Is there any reason that I should be any more concerned about chamber pressure on the Parker than any of my other guns? I always use recipes from reliable sources, most of which run somewhere between 9000 and 11000.

Thanks

TPS p. 515 has chamber pressure tables.

There are other sources for Parker recommended loads, which, as you have recognized by your question, are different , but related, to chamber pressure.

John, Most of us here keep our loads to 5,000 to 8,000 PSI A 1 frame 16 is a great gun but you have a gun with 80+ year old wood and there really is no need to punish the gun and your shoulder with hot loads. If it were my gun I would load accordingly. Also our friends at RST make some fantastic shells for vintage guns that will do anything you ask of them within reason. Check them out at RST.com

Thanks. I didn't know any of this. I will get reading.

John, I can recommend joining the 16 Gauger Society, as well as their
"low pressure" group where you'll get tons of low pressure recipes.

http://www.16ga.com/

OK, found RST. Just FYI it is rstshells.com. rst.com is the RAM stress test group. The Parker Story looks great, but a bit out of my price range. I had already found and enjoyed 16ga.com, but had not looked at the low pressure group.

Thanks again

John,

I have a 16 VH on a #1 frame as well. I try to limit my shells to 1 oz at 1200 fps or less. I reload 7/8 oz at 1150 fps with the Down Range wad and International Clays powder. The pressure is 6200 psi and I shoot this load in a 16 gauge PH that has a set of Damascus barrels also. The PH was a 12 gauge on a #1 frame with Twist barrels that had been beat to death. I had a set of Damascus 16 gauge barrels that miraculously fit. Another fun Parker with 28" full choke barrels.

Harry

Harry, Could you post the full recipe for that load? I have been wanting to try some of the Downrange wads. Thank's!

Thanks Harry, that helps a lot. What kind of hulls and primer? 1 Oz. Loads are exactly what I am looking for. I don't hunt much any more, just shoot targets.

I have started the process to try to get into the 16 ga.com low pressure group, but haven't had a response yet. Seems I need the secret handshake or something:) Thanks to all for the good info here.

Am I right in thinking that the only way to get The Parker Story is to purchase the books for $500 or more?

I believe the Double Gun Journal is selling seconds for around $175 for the pair. I don't think anyone has found the reason they are seconds.

John, If you contact Russ Gray (RWG),and send him a one time $20 fee he'll get you set up on the low pressure group. I think $500 for the Parker Story is for the limited edition. Pretty sure I paid less then $300 for mine,have to watch and shop around. Others here can point you in the right direction I'am sure. :)

WW Xpert Hull, WW 209 primer, 15.8 grains International, DR 16 wad, 7/8 oz shot yields 1150 fps at 6200 psi. You wouldn't believe the effectiveness of this load on clays and birds. I shoot 7 1/2 chilled shot at everything smaller than rabbit an duck.

Harry

Thank You Harry! Were do you find the Winchester hulls? I can't find them around here.

Dave,

When I cleaned out Papa's house I found about 300 or so once fired empties he had been hoarding. You can still get WW Xpert 1 oz 2 1/2 dram loads at 1165 fps. A great load and expensive, but is a way to get empties.

Harry

Thanks Harry. I wonder with the Winchester being a straight walled hull if a Cheddite hull has about the same capacity.

Dave, Here's what I've been useing in my 16ga DH.
Cheddite Hull
Win 209
DR16 wad
16.3 gr Clays International
7/8 oz #8 lead
1175 fps 6700 psi

Nice load thats murder on clay targets.:)

Thanks Robert, Looking at Harry's and your load they seem very close. I think I will order some Down Range wads and some Cheddite hulls and give it a go. Thanks again!

Ok, this brings up another question that I have. I am just starting to collect hulls for the 16 right now. I have a couple hundred old AA's that I will load several more times, but I need to build a supply of something more modern. I was starting to work on Remington game loads simply because I can get them locally, but I can just as easily get WW Xpert.

Here is the question though; if I buy factory loads on the WW Xperts, I only have one 16 gauge to empty them through. Can I shoot those the first time through the Parker? What kind of pressure am I looking at there?

Thanks again.

John, I don't know about factory pressures on the AA's maybe Harry can answer that for you. I reload the black Remingtons and at best I get 4/5 reloads before they are junk. I think the AA's will last a bit longer.

And one more while I'm at it: I may go ahead and order some Cheddite hulls. They come primed with ch209 primers. I don't know how different they are from the Winchester 209, but does anyone have a 7/8 or 1 Oz recipe for that combo? I currently have the Claybusters WAA 16 wad, and the SP 16 wad, but will also be getting some DR 16's. I am making a trip to "the big city" in the next few days and plan to stock up on all the things I can't get here.

This info would help until I hear back from the low pressure group and get their data tables.

The AA's I have are the old ones. They were great hulls, but I understand they no longer exist. I will find some loads and keep using those until they wear out, but I don't have very many of them. It seems that the Cheddites now have the reputation of lasting the longest, so I might as well just stock up on those.

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help. I am catching up on a lot of new information after about 15 years of little shooting and no reloading.

John,

I would not worry about pressure in a VH. I do worry about recoil and how it might impact the old wood. In the Winchester reloading book they list this as a duplicate of factory 2 1/2 dram eq. promotional field load: WW 209 primer, 20.0 grains WSF, WAA16 wad, 1 oz shot, 1165 fps, 8400 psi.

Harry

harry that was good advise for the gun and a real decent load to boot...thanks charlie

I ordered some Cheddite hulls from Precision Reloading. They come primed with Cheddite primers. Does anyone know how significant the difference is between the Cheddite and Win 209? I am wondering if I can use this same load for the first round, then I will be using Winchester primers after that.

I just realized that I already asked that a few days ago. Maybe no one knows. I will see what I can find.

And to finish this one sided conversation, information on the low pressure group site says that win 209 and Cheddite 209 can be substituted for one another.

John, That is true. Pressures realized with both the Cheddite and Winchester primers are very similar.

Is this Cheddite hulls 2-3/4" or 2-1/2"
Graff's is no longer carrying the SG-16 wad.
I have about 10,000 on hand, but will have to find something different some day.
Thanks, Dave

John C, I have done exactly that, loaded the new preprimed hull,then after first firing reloaded with Win 209's. Like Dave said performance between Win and Cheddite primers is very close.

Dave M, The data I have is for 2 3/4. I see data for 2 1/2 in. hulls using 3/4oz shot.
The DR is a tall wad. Depending on the bulkiness of the powder, 2 1/2 in. might work with a roll crimp?

I have 2 3/4 hulls. I have 1000 DR16's on the way that are stuck in a snowstorm in the Midwest. The hulls arrived today. We are on our way to a city that has a Sportsmans warehouse, so I will be picking up a keg of International this weekend, and by next week I will be ready to load a few.

The data I see usually says Cheddite blue or green. These are red, but I assume they are the same. Precision said "Color may vary."

John,
Did you measure your new RED Cheddite hulls?
The red hulls I've seen are 2-1/2". Not saying yours aren't 2-3/4".

Don't scare me like that Dave! I was in a big hurry when I ordered them, and see myself punching the wrong item on the iPad. Nope, they are 2 3/4. Nice looking hulls too. Coming back to this after so many years, I was surprised by the low quality of a lot of hulls. I used to just use the AA's and some Remington-Peters. These look like good hulls.

John,
They are a great hull, I've loaded 1000's of the 2-1/2" hulls.
All my 2-1/2" are red, and the 2-3/4" are green.
I like it that way, for ease of recognition.
Thanks for checking and enjoy the pleasures of reloading.

A few questions re primers and I picked up this on another site:

Hottest to coldest.

Federal 209A
Chedditte
Remington
CCI 209 M
Winchester
CCI standard

Thanks, actually I was just headed out to set up the 16 gauge loader. I picked up the powder last weekend, and the wads arrived. I will work with the cheddite primers, then switch to Winchester since they are one thing that is readily available here.

I also found out that my Parker was "restored and restocked" by Larry DelGrego in the early '70's, making the wood just 40 years old.