Cut or Original ??
 

This is a Parker 20 gauge from 1917. Originally a 25 1/2" gun per records that now measures 25 1/4". Original or has someone trimmed it, opinions please ?

Is the “lower” barrel slightly out of round or is it my eye or camera angle.
Gap at end of appears to be slightly less than others that I have seen on ones that have had the gap. Not an expert by any means though.

The out of round appearance caught my eye as well, I have not inquired about that as of yet.

I would say most likely correct if letter says 25 1/2. Would like to see letter.

It is in the books as a 25 1/2" gun but I do not have a letter. Just kicking tires for now on this one James, it would be a neat little grouser and an oddity at that barrel length.

If its a shooter and the price is right I wouldnt worry about a 1/4 inch

I say “original” judging by the fact that the keels are in place and the perpendicular termination line and blank space beyond it are all still there.

What difference would 1/4” make anyway? The chokes would not have been affected by a reduction of 1/4”. Parker customarily bores chokes with from 0” to as much as 3/8” of “parallel” bore at the muzzle. “Trimmed” barrels are not uncommon and IMO do not detract from a ‘shooter’ gun’s value.





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It looks like a PH… is it?





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Correct Dean...

Randy, looking at the muzzle, straight on, there is nothing to support either argument. In my opinion, the termination line is the giveaway. If you were to add a full quarter inch to the existing blank portion, it wouldn't look like any rib I've ever seen, so I would have to say it's original.

And there are a LOT of examples of Parkers who's barrels are a tad longer or shorter than how they are listed in the factory records.





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My real interest in the gun lies in the fact that it is a PH 20 with documented 25 1/2" barrels thus I was seeking opinions on originality. I think the term rare would apply here. If the gun had more condition I would not hesitate given the rarity. At the end of the day I will most likely pass because of that lack of condition and it really does not fit my collecting DNA if you will. Really neat little gun though. Thanks for the replies Gentlemen :bigbye:

Dean how could you tell this was a PH ?

Simply by the fact that it's a 1917 gun with what appear to be either Twist or Laminated barrels. At that time the only guns Parker normally produced with those barrels were the Grade 1 or PH guns.





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Muzzles do not look flat, ivory bead is installed to far back , more soldier than keels, flat on top rib is easy to duplicate with 4oz. hammer and a half round file, barrels do not touch at the muzzle, and I have seen many Parker barrel lengths vary up to 1/8" but never 1/4".

Kinda unusual for you getting down to 2/3’s of a yardstick :rotf:

I got an NH a few years back that was pretty much a beater but useful for actual use . Anyway there was an ever so slight part at the muzzle , so we clamped it in the vise on the mill and took a skoosh over 1/8” off the muzzle problem solved as the minute separation disappeared and after shooting several hundred times it didn’t restart .

I'm running a fever 🥵

I thought I read in The Parker Story that if a barrel was within a 1/2 inch of the recorded length than it was most likely original. I have barrels on 2 my Parkers that are 1/16 to 1/8 over the recorded length and one that is 3/16 under the recorded length. The termination line on the shorter length looks very similiar to yours with probably less than 1/16 of a inch from the line to the end of the barrel.

Randy that's original in my opinion. I own a 32 " gun that measures 31 3/4" and still has the termination line with a normal blank space. This gun was made in 1917 and maybe DD barrels were impossible to source due to WWI, so PB used what they had to finish a gun??

Craig, I would tend to think DD barrels might be more abundant (in stock) due to the fact that Parker only used them on guns of grades 5 and above, though we know of a couple of grade 4’s with them.
Just my take on the DD’s, though granted, sourcing composite barrels from Europe at that time had just about ended.





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I have decided to pass on this gun. It is for sale on GB and can be seen via the link below. My interest was primarily the fact that it has factory 25 1/2" barrels but unfortunately it lacks condition. Maybe one of our members has a fancy for such a gun to chase birds with. Thanks for all the responses regarding the barrels, FWIW I believe the length to be original myself.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912634045

Its a leap of faith to buy that gun. Without a letter from ChucK , I believe the gun had 26" barrels and were shortened to alter chokes or remove damage.

Craig I can guarantee that the letter will show the gun as leaving Meriden with 25 1/2" barrels.

Randy it seems strange to me that someone would take what appears to be a die grinder to eliminate the word Twist and the arrow following CONN. on the top rib. The matting in that same area appears to be badly worn or perhaps sanded. I remain skeptical.

I agree with you Craig, that just adds to the issues or concerns that this gun causes. Just a theory but I was thinking someone rust blued those barrels in an attempt to hide the pattern and then removed the type of steel from the rib with the grinder or Dremel tool. Probably way off base but it seems a plausible theory. I am not skeptical about the barrel length, just my opinion. But I understand the other side here as well.

Looks to me like someone tried to alter/hide the Twist Steel mark. Darn, thats a heavy little gun at 7 lbs, my PH 20 with 28" Parker Steel barrels is heavy at 6 3/4 lbs. My PH 16 is a delightful 6 lbs 3 oz with its cut barrels.
I like the dimensions of the gun, however.

Why waste $2500.00 on a gun that the seller states, "Mostly Original", & no description of What's not original. Have the barrels been changed; no photos of serial numbers. Use your money wisely & purchase a good honest unmolested Parker in good condition.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of composite barrel Parkers were faked up with ground off barrel legends in the fifties and sixties by backwoods gunsmiths who thought customers would think they were fluid steel barrels. By the way, what is the serial number of this gun and does it show up at 25 1/2" in the serialization book? What "book" is the seller and the buyer referring to?

Bill it's not in the ser. book but it is in the PB records and those records show it as a 25 1/2" barreled gun.

Dean, would the rib matting be the indicator of the grade of gun from that one photo?

The word "Twist" would be the word used for a grade 1 (P grade) hammerless gun. That's what it is and had 25 1/2" barrels. The rib matting was the same on all grades. I think Dean just looked at the barrel pattern and identified it as Twist.

Not at all the rib matting. The Twist barrels were the give-away.





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Thanks Dean. I had to blow up the photo to see the pattern on the barrels.