Allen & Marshall Auction Parsonsburg,MD
 

Allen and Marshall Auctioneers have several Parkers listed on their Feb 4th auction. Lots 84A 84B 93 108 163 & 164 are hammer guns. FYI

Auction starts today.

I live in MD and I am not excited. The first time they ran a gun auction that I knew about, a few years ago, the realized prices would have indicated shill bidding. Let us know how any of you did at the auction.

Thanks Jent, was there any issues with the D hammer gun ?
Most of the prices didn't look to bad on the hammer guns if the the bores where in good condition.

I guess that kinda tells us what lifters are bringing. I personally think lifters are very neat and very underpriced. Thank you for posting that info. Dave

I bought 108. I'll have $750.00 in it when the dust settles I believe. I guess it all depends on the bores. As if I need another gun itch to scratch but some of these early guns are so gorgeous it makes me wonder why I passed them all these years. Jerry

Nope, it's being shipped. I may have to head your direction in a week however as I bought a stock duplicating machine, after 35 years of filing blanks down with a horse hoof file and a draw knife I've purchased a duplicator. Guaranteed down to .003 tolerance, I'll tape the inletting as I still want to an absolutely perfect fit on these old doubles. Jerry

Jerry, What mfg. of duplicator? Aprox. cost? I have over 200 stock blanks on the drying rack, thanks, ed.

Ed, I bought a Radarcarve. About $1200.00. Manual duplicating machine. I used one and cut a Smith stock so closely that the inletting required very little work and the fit was as if the wood had grown around the metal. The accuracy is all derived from the guide pins and the cutter if the machine is made correctly. The machine I used was at a wood workers show, had been used extensively for other matters, it had a lot of hours. It was set up for show use so I dragged an American walnut blank there and an L.C. Smith field 20ga stock, SST, AE that was broken in half with much of it missing. I glued the stock and glassed in the missing areas to make it whole before going to the duplicator. The inletted area was perfectly intact however. I taped the inside of the inletting to reduce the amount taken out, and in 1/2 hour, the stock was off the duplicator. By NO MEANS is this a drop in or anything close. It still required meticulous hand fitting to acquire a factory fit but...it reduced my time extensively, especially the outside shaping which I've always done with files. I've posted some photos of the Eagle grade L.C. Smith I'm in the middle of and you can see the advantages of a duplicator quite easily! This Eagle grade was done all by hand from a blank. A box lock gun should be easier yet for the duplicator. Feel free to call anytime to chat. Jerry

This auction house has simply turned their back on their obligation to sell the gun to the person with the highest bid. They said it was a software problem. It was actually a greed problem. I'm still not sure how far I want to go with this, I don't know if the gun is worth the hassle. Life is pretty short. An attorney did contact the auction house and the Better Business Bureau in their town as well as the folks who govern an auctioneers license. I get so mad I could kick a teddy bear a country mile when lied to like this. I'd think a good old fashioned bare knuckle match would be most appropriate here but the legal system really frowns on that type of action these days. Jerry

Jerry just make their lives as miserable as possible and cost them as much money as you can by refering people you know to other dealers and auction houses. That is the best payback....! I know I have already cost one major auction house over $65,000 in sales (I know Jim (owner) doesn't care, but so far I have cost him close to 10K in commission over a $5,000 gun and that number is still climbing after he told me to "pound sand" (or there abouts,won't even refund my buyers premium...) Eric

The auction house guy, Dave Marshall told me the gun actually sold for less than I bid! Now that truly takes nerve! Jerry

I smell BS. Hang in there Jerry.

I agree with Ed make them sweat..:cuss: Eric

My attorney just sent the paperwork to me he received back from Allen & Marshall. I have the name of the guy who bought the gun. He did get it for $100.00 under my bid. This appears to simply be a very poorly run auction, one I won't ever bid in again. Jerry

What's next Jerry?

I would need to hire an attorney in Maryland to pursue this any further. I'm not sure it's worth it, I have no idea how the courts would handle this or how it would be viewed in a court of law. Any Maryland attorneys out there with any ideas? Jerry

Save your time and your money! Other then hurt feelings, you have no real damages, Lot's of guns out there--forget this one! I've been burned in a couple of these types of auctions. I don't bid anymore, unless I'm there or I have someone there bidding for me.

Pretty much my thoughts on this issue. You can spend your money and make more money but if you spend your time you are NOT getting that back. Jerry

Jerry: Don't get mad, just GET EVEN! There are ways that will cost them dearly. One is, refer them to this thread!

Best Regards, George

Cut your losses - walk away, sadder but wiser.

Words of true Wisdom indeed.
 

I also agree with brother Lander here- if we can post such scenarios without name calling and possible libel action, the "word" will travel through the double gun brotherhood and this "questionable" site will twist slowly in the wind and fade away. Hiring a lawyer at a $5000 retainer to possibly collect an iffy $1000-- not smart poker- and recalling the wisdom of the Oriental-- "When you set out on a journey of revenge, dig TWO graves first"!! Jerry, you are truly one of the good guys- honest as the day is long, and it is always sad to see a friend get the proverbial "shaft" here- For what it is worth in passing, I never get too deeply in love with any gun I buy, life is fleeting, is it not? :bigbye::bigbye:

I hate to give my friend Jerry the business, but I'm sure he read my post of February 5 where I related my suspicion that this auction used shills and was not on the up and up. I expected at least one PM to clarify my comments. Oh well.

Yes Bill, I should have listened. I have the bug pretty badly however for these old guns with non fluid steel barrels now. The hammer guns especially have me. The quality and precision with which these guns are made is simply outstanding! Jerry

I don't spend a lot of words on telling people what to buy, but I'm pretty mouthy when I'm giving advice on what not to buy. You're better off without another bad gun, Jerry.

we do listen bill thanks and hope you keep tellin us.... charlie

You really must pick your battles in life. If you rage war on everything that happens you'll be a miserable SOB. I live pretty upbeat day to day. I've been a lucky guy in business, marriage and have three daughters that love me. So all in all this gun is not worth the hassle. It's nice there are ways to get the word out about them however. People usually get what's theirs. Like Mark Twain said, " He who carries a cat by it's tail is about to learn things he can learn no other way. ". Jerry

O & R, thank you for the kind words!

You are most welcome Jerry
 

[quote=Jerry Andrews;37836]You really must pick your battles in life. If you rage war on everything that happens you'll be a miserable SOB. I live pretty upbeat day to day. I've been a lucky guy in business, marriage and have three daughters that love me. So all in all this gun is not worth the hassle. It's nice there are ways to get the word out about them however. People usually get what's theirs. Like Mark Twain said, " He who carries a cat by it's tail is about to learn things he can learn no other way. ". Jerry

O & R, thank you for the kind words![/-- Have to admire a man who can quote from one of my favorite "sages" ever- Samuel Langhorn Clemens- I like best his phrase about learning from bitter experience, and again, the apparent feline thread is apparent here as well: "A cat who has sat on a hot stove once will never visit a kitchen again!""

Life is, indeed, way too short to spend it planning revenge against those who would choose to "short-change" us, whether they be Bernie Madoff or Messers Marshall and Allen. The word about their apparently intentional favoritism in a auction/business deal will spread, and perhaps they'll be reduced to trying to sell rusty farm implements-:bigbye:

Jerry, A very true statement and a great attitude. Thanks for your thoughts and I am sure the membership here will be better off by not dealing with these people. Over time it will cost them more in lost revenue than just this one deal. A good reputation is an expensive thing to uphold at times.

Just bringing this to light Jerry has cost them :) and it will continue to cost them so in the end you did win and it didn't cost you and you can feel good about it (I know I do, as I have cost one auction house over 60K ($9,000 in commission and almost twice the cost of the gun I bought) in sales :) over what they did to me). As said a "Good reputation is an expensive thing to uphold at times." Eric

Gentlemen,
I never imagined this thread would go this far. My blood pressure is too high to keep my anonimity any longer. I am the instigator of this thread. I had consigned four solid Parker Under Lifters to this auction. Jerry, your gun was NOT one of mine. I asked my friend and ex-neighbor Asa Kelley, to post the original heads up, to inform fellow members of this auction. Here on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, this auction is widely advertised as "The premier gun auction of the mid Atlantic States". I live on the edge of the world and it seemed like a good opportunity to make some money on guns I no longer wanted. I spoke to the auction house on the phone, and they claimed that past auctions drew bids from twenty-six states, by internet, phone, and in person. My experience with auctions has been that Parkers bring their value or sometimes much more.

After the auction ended, I apologized to Asa for getting him involved. I want to apologize to all of you for leading you down the road on a bogus auction. I usually live and learn everything in this life "the hard way". Jerry, I'm sorry for your aggravation, but I'm glad you didn't lose any money. I don't know who bought my four guns, shills, dealers, I don't know. In the final analysis, I lost almost $1,000.00. I am the cat that jumped on the stove.

Dave Purnell