OK, a pet peeve. Let me know if this is unreasonableble
 

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I have a problem with the "for sale" ads that say "For sale at.... - wherever". I'm guessing there are a lot of dues paying folks here - me included - who probably will never attend any of the big functions back east. And yet, I get to see ads for "for sale at...only - will not ship" and so on. To be honest, I've yet to see anything I couldn't live without, but still...if I'm a paying participant here, and folks are using this venue to advertise something for sale, shouldn't I have the same right to buy it as anyone? If the shipping is thought to be exorbitant, isn't that up to me as a buyer? And if you don't, as a seller, feel like packaging it or shipping it, then maybe you ought to offer it somewhere elsewhere. There.

Yes, unreasonable!

Such postings give PGCA members—including you—exclusive opportunities. It is your decision not to participate in these exclusive opportunities. It is ridiculous that you suggest other PGCA members should be prohibited from offering and participating in such exclusive opportunities.

As the youngins say: “Oh wah waah!”

-Victor

Thanks for your opinion Victor, but I'm not sure you got my point. I certainly have no problem with members offering "exclusive opportunities"; in fact I have bought and sold a number of items on this site. My issue is that it's not a fair playing field if we don't all have equal access to the opportunity, and I don't think we do when the point of sale is limited to locations where some of us would have to drive a thousand miles or more to get to. But as Dennis Miller used to say back when he used to be funny, "That's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

"Will not ship" is a very common phrase among sellers, regardless of whether they suggest meeting at a particular venue or not.

Another scenario is items that would be cumbersome to ship. Like Ammo. Or larger items. I have advertised various items like this for sale as for pickup only at shoots. Like gun racks, or even a stock duplication machine.
Or there are other things that someone may pay a fair price for, but not the amount to ship it. Like reloading components, hulls, wads, etc...

An in person deal keeps expenses down and the deal personal.

I assume most sellers will work with people who can’t attend and need to ship.

Mills is right. All restrictions are not always mentioned in the ad. All restrictions are not engraved in stone. Exceptions will be made among friends and serious buyers. Thanks, Mills.

Some sellers get weary of tire kicking or having guns sent back (for any reason) which leaves a high chance of the gun being damaged. I have no problem with sellers only allowing for a sale at an event or certain venue. It is within their rights and does not violate any PGCA guidelines. I get bent when I see a nice double for sale and I missed the sale by MINUTES!!!!!! As the saying goes, "A day late and a dollar short."

That sounds like a very reasonable argument and I agree.

The owner of a gun or anything else has the right to sell it whenever/wherever/however he/she chooses. If that means I don't get access to their stuff, that's just the way it is.

It appears to me that Parker Pages is an east coast organization. While that is fine it does kind of cut we on the west coast out. I cannot even think about attending this up and coming party for instance. If I stick my foot out I can dabble my toe in the northwestern Pacific Ocean, far far away from the doings on the east coast.

29% of the members listed on the membership list live west of the Mississippi River.

Mountain meet Mole Hill

We had the annual meeting in Las Vegas some years ago. I enjoyed it, but planning a west coast event from the east coast was problematic. I hope we are able to do an annual meeting or major member event, but volunteers in the area are needed.

I see the point but have little desire to let anything on the internet occupy one micron of my existence. There are people who are not comfortable shipping firearms, that's for sure, and probably for good reason they don't.

I look at it a little different though. There have been several times here that I have seen one of those ads and think man, I would buy that in a heartbeat. I wonder how many of those guns go home with the seller that could have been sold instantly to this vast market!

Ryan

I was in a car collectors club that had an east and west coast gathering. It worked out well. Maybe there could be a sanctioned event on the west coast/in the western states; all it would take is a group to start it and the Board to approve it.

Colorado is nice.

I was stationed on the east coast when assigned to Fort Benning. I loved it out there. I enjoyed the flora and fauna, the food the people and the history of the east coast, but today I find myself in the far off northwest. It's okay up here, but the birding is better down there. I remember Avery Island, what a mecca. Anyway, please don't hold it against me if I do not attend your up and coming shindig. I'll be there in spirit.

Steve, Parker Pages is the quarterly journal of the Parker Gun Collectors Association. The average annual membership roll is 1,500. Yes, 3/4 of those members are east of the Mississippi, but they are only a fraction of actual Parker owners. There are more events than the bigger multi-day shoots that are available for Parker Universe to enjoy. There are one day fun gatherings that can spring up anywhere. If you would like to get one up and running, join our organization and we can help you get the word out. Anytime we can get a group of firearm owners together for a fun day on the range is a win for all of us.

The way I see it there may be buying opportunities lost when a distant seller won't ship, but there may be others gained when a local seller feels the same.

Hi Phil, as I am one of those guys who only sells person to person at an event, I may as well through my two cents in. I am 70 years old and have never in my life shipped a gun that I have sold to the buyer. All of my deals, from the selling end, have been face to face or through a local dealer. At this stage of my life, I have zero interest in learning what it takes to ship a firearm in today's environment. I also do not wantt to deal with cheats and tire kickers. I had to deal with a tire kicker in person at a shoot last year and it drove me to drinking. You say that this limits your ability to acquire desired guns but how is this different than folks like me who can't make it to gun shows in other parts of the country, like the Southern or the Ohio gun show. I know there are a lot of non-dealers at those events plus the surprise walk ins that offer super guns that I would probably love to own but will never even know are available. I guess in my case if I was offering something that someone really wanted, they could contact me and we might be able to work something out. I have given guns to folks at a shoot to bring back to the buyer who could not attend the event. Also, a local dealer will perform the function of packaging and shipping a firearm to an FFL, but the cost for this service is kinda high and I would have to add it to the sell price of the gun.
Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter. Hope you can see it from my perspective.

I'm with Don on this. The last two guns I had shipped to me were heavily damaged. Nuff' said.

I think if you're buying a highly desirable gun and it isn't coming to you, you get on a plane and go look at it. I flew to Michigan to order a Perazzi. Best $400 plane ticket I ever bought as I got exactly what I wanted.

A lot of the time it is just not worth it to me to sell by mail. I used to sell $20-30k a year of high priced items on eBay. Guitars, ham radios equipment, cameras etc. I won't do it anymore because eBay has turned into an etsy for all practical purposes. If you haven't sold for a while it takes a year or so to build up to a level that allows you to sell anything over a few dollars. It has turned into a marketplace of home businesses selling items at levels that I can't believe nets them over $1/transaction (read sports cards or hair bows).
At this time in my life, I would rather pay a commission than fool with it. I simply don't want to spend my time packing, running to the shipper etc. I have other things I want to do and little quality time left to do it. I have a basement full of things that are expensive and would be for sale but I have no interest in spending the time to do it. That will be how the kids earn their inheritance.

I hear ya Daryl. A member sent me a gun in a wooden box not to long ago. The idea as I understand it originally came from Allan Swanson. I have adopted the idea and anything (gun) in excess of 5K goes in one of these going forward. Not indestructible but ....

I delivered two guns for members from the Southern. It was a great way to get to know the great folks in this organization

I bought a gun from Allan many moons ago and received it in one of his wooden crates. Shipping is still a hassle and I'd rather let someone else do the work and pay them.

I keep the cardboard boxes that hard cases come in for shipping a cased gun inside. It protects the case which protects the gun.

F R A G I LE

"Must be Italian!!"

I ship guns by UPS and have never ever had a problem shipping in cases Allan taught me to build. The wooden box in itself is protection enough and I have never marked them "FRAGILE" because in the business I was formerly in, that was taken as a challenge by the gorillas who handled the freight.

Allan was one of a kind and I miss him very much.





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I'm one to show and sell guns in person and I'd advertised 3 for legal sale at the recent Northeast SxS. 2 of them sold there along with 1 unadvertised, and as stated in my adverts I was agreeable to ship after the Northeast SxS and I'm doing that for the 1 remaining gun. Also I saw guns for sale there by well known members that were never advertised and I suppose that might cause grief to some.

As many here have learned from hassles and bad experiences there are valid reasons to avoid shipping and while that might not sit well with some, the fact is that sales only at events/shows is within the site guidelines. It's the seller's choice how to advertise and - too bad- if a potential buyer's home location is too far away to travel. If anyone has a burr under the saddle on the current site sales guidelines I suggest they work that with the BOD's and/or site administrator for concurrence on a change. Meanwhile, one man's sales procedure might be another man's irritation but that's the way it is. I can write that more crudely but you get the drift.

I’m generally agreeable arranging delivery somehow on items I sell. However some things are very difficult due size, value, location etc , shipping has a risk that varies according to the situation. If held to a “must ship” standard would not list some items.

William

Shipping involves an inspection and possibly a return and refund. It's very understandable why some sellers would rather do a face to face. At my age, I don't have time to wrap and ship as many guns as I have to sell. Maybe a few but not all of them.

Phil, I disagree with the "equal access". Everyone does have equal access, they just choose not to make the trip. The access is there, the will isn't. Make the trip, buy the item(s), shoot a few events, stay a couple of days. One might even have fun. Just sayin'.

I wonder if the opinions would be the same if the majority of the events were not in the east but in the Midwest or the west

It is simply a matter of fact that the majority and proximity of Parker shooters and shooting venues happen to be in the more populous East.





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This is a solution looking for a problem.