Please help determine value and condition of my Parker Brothers 16 gauge
 

Made in 1907 I believe. My great grandfather passed while I was a child and left this beautiful 16 gauge side by side for me. It’s a family heirloom. I occasionally hunt rabbits with it as I found it was easy to shoulder and aim in dense cover. I would say it’s maybe shot 10 times a year. The serial # is 141876. The frame size is 1. Weight of the barrels is 3(4). Made of Vulcan steel. The barrel is 26” long and in excellent condition but has one 1” scratch and two very very small dents. If there is any more info you need to help determine the value please let me know.

A couple more pictures

I would suggest ordering a PGCA research letter on your Parker. The price is $100 for non-members and $40 for members. I would suggest becoming a member for $40 and then order the letter for $40.

Having said that, it looks like your VH has a replacement buttstock and the barrels appear to have been cut/shortened.





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Agree with Dean on stock and barrels, but still a nice old "shooter". My favorite Parker also has has cut barrels, but is my favorite grouse gun. I would just enjoy shooting/hunting with GGF shotgun. The gun is about 115 yrs old, and sure would have alot of stories to tell.

Looks like a respectable gun, flaws above noted though.

I have a VH in 16g with factory 26" barrels, and while I prefer 28", the gun is great in tight quarters and carries easily. I'd shoot it and enjoy it especially since it's a family gun. That makes it special right there and more so because it's a Parker.

Information, probably order book information, is available on your gun. This woould probably include original barrel length and the name of the original person or company who purchased your gun 114 years ago. Interesting stuff. A picture of the rib at the muzzle would tell us more about the originality of the barrel length. A straight on picture of the stock and action would tell us more about the originality of the stock wood. Let's also see a picture of that pistol grip cap from the bottom. Great gun any of us would love to own.

I have a question regarding the comments above on barrels being shortened:

Looking at the muzzle picture the OP provided it appears to me the the barrel walls are touching and the plugs seem to be in order. I have seen 28" guns cut to 26 and they all showed noticeable space between the barrels at the muzzle which would indicate to me that they have not been cut. I would assume a research letter would solve this question.

Comments would be appreciated by me.... Thanks

Do the numbers match on the fame, trigger guard and forearm iorn?

I don't see any evidence of "plugs" in place. To me it looks like those triangular sections below both the top and bottom ribs and made of plain lead. If the barrels had been shortened by Parker Bros. the steel keels would have been replaced.





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Dean: OK... "keels" and yea they do look like something other then steel but that does not answer the question as far as the barrels touching each other. Also, there is the possibility the muzzle area of the barrels has not been "cleaned up" and as I am sure you know, different steels respond differently chemically to air, sunshine, time, and use (they do have the look of lead). It is also my understanding that in order to bring the barrels together after a "cut down" the ribs would need to be striped and relayed which is more then most local, non factory cut off jobs get.

Just thinking out loud.

I don’t know what benefit could be derived from closing a gap of some 3/64th of an inch between the barrels. I don’t think there would be a discernable difference in how it shot/POI.





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Dean: I guess I could agree with there being no point in closing such a small gap as you alliterated but in this case, the discussion point is I do not see, after blowing that picture up, any discernable gap between the barrels at what should be their contact point. Thats my point.

If the barrels were cut back there would be a gap.... and there is no gap.

Not necessarily. It all depends on how far back from the muzzle the barrels remain in contact and how much of the barrels was cut off.





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Dean: OK... but then how can some say those barrels were cut without knowing exactly what barrels that gun came from the factory with and know the length of contact. Knowing that, might at least, provide some accuracy. So what would the normal length of contact be on a gun such as the OP has posted ?

I really want to see the factory info on this gun. It may well humble me in my questioning but I have been there before.

Thanks for your input. I hope the OP will post his findings when he get his letter.

I too hope the OP will post his findings/contents of the letter.

To be certain of cut barrels I rely on both a lack of accepted rib termination matting/termination line and vacant 1/8” along with a lack of steel keels properly installed.





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Dean: I find your criteria interesting and legitimate for determining and identifying these as cut off barrels. However, the only photo of said barrels does not show the top of the top rib which would verify rib termination, matting, etc. Am I wrong ?

I agree however, the lack of keels by itself seals the deal in my opinion.
Parker Brothers would never let a gun out the door without keels.





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OK..... Thanks.

We have seen recent examples, and recent discussion on barrels touching at the muzzle. I remember several owners stating that their barrels were not touching and were known to be original length.

Conversely, barrels which touch is not definitive proof that barrels were NOT cut. This I know first hand as I handled a set of Titanic Barrels, known to have left the factory at 30", cut to 28", still touching, and keels still plainly visible. There is no termination line. Lack of a definite termination is occasionally seen on Uncut Vulcan barrels, but I have never seen it missing on Titanic barrels of original length. As one would expect, a 30" gun, often full choked in one, if not both barrels, and then cut to 28" will still have a measurable choke constriction. Believe this or don't: I have a set of barrels, NOW 24", which WERE 30", and they touch at the muzzle!

I don't think anyone can emphatically state that the keels were of a specific length. They could be an inch long, they could be 2-3" long. One thing about barrel construction I'm pretty sure of, is that the keels extended beyond the muzzle, at any random length, and were trimmed flush is the finishing operation. If they are NOT visible, it's an almost sure bet the barrels have been cut.
Lead and steel oxidize entirely differently, so I wouldn't place much in the idea they don't show because they've been sitting around.

It is my opinion (and yours may differ) that the keels serve no useful purpose AFTER the barrels have been completed. The solder bond to barrel, to the other barrel, to the keel, and to the rib isn't very likely to be any stronger because of the random piece of steel used to fill the void and keep everything in place when it's wire bound and soldered.

Thank you Edgar....

We haven't heard from the OP since April 3, 2021. Good luck taking a look at the PGCA letter.

I was looking through old threads and read this one today. I did look at the pictures, and realized that the gu (per the TG) is 141876 as stated. The forend iron, is marked 140876. The barrel number isn't visible. Seems strange to be off by exactly 1000, but also I would bet the forend, iron and stock were all switched at the same time. Neither gun appears in the serialization book, but both numbers indicate factory records are available.

This was a big year for Parker production (around 7000 guns) but they went through a period of almos 3000 serial numbers with no VH guns listed, but missing numbers may be in the majority durung that period. Immediately before and after. Vulcans were built in huge blocks.

Interesting, but this particular gun appears to have been put together aftermarket with bits and pieces.

You have made the observation that no Grade 0 guns appear in the Serialization book but that there are surviving records…

When the books were being transcribed there are ranges where guns of Grade 2, 1, 0 and OV were omitted. The only guns appearing in the Serialization within those ranges are Grade 3 and higher. The actual reason for this omission is still a puzzle and there are several ranges of serial numbers within which this is evident… but in many cases these records exist and are available for a research letter.





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I believe that the omission of gun below grade 3 from the serialization book is merely a time issue. The writers and their transcribers went on to more important work. Charlie or someone commented on that issue back when.

That’s what I’ve heard too Bill but never have heard it from anyone involved in extracting the data and publishing the Serialization book.

Each time we omit data simply for convenience sake it becomes closer and closer to being non-existant for future generations.

Don’t ask me how I know this but recent private conversations have confirmed this.





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