Parker's Recommended Load for Different Guns
 

The topic of proper and safe loads for Parker and other American doubles is often discussed and not often agreed upon. The British do not have this problem for long ago they mandated that each and every gun be proofed for maximum service (normal use) pressure and load. This is stamped into the water table.

Parker being a good business found it prudent to advise users of their guns as to the proper loads. It would not have been good for business for their light guns to be shot lose by sportsmen using heavy loads. I did not find this in the Parker Story. It is an advertisement which I found on the Internet. It is hard to read due to its small format. If anyone can provide this or something similar in large format please add it to this thread.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...arkerLoads.jpg

Below is what I can best read in the add. The column of numbers was most hard and for the fractions I used 1/2"

“Suggestions to Persons Using the Parker Gun.

Parties using our guns are recommended to use Standard Wadding. Wads, larger that the shells are not necessary, always putting them down to place flat and square, otherwise the shooting qualities of the guns will be greatly impaired.

If Brass shells are used we suggest two size larger wads than gauge of gun. As a guide for charges of powder and shot to be used with the different gauge and weight guns, we submit the follow as a basis, which varies according to gauge, length of barrels and weight of gun, although “the distribution” can be increased either by decreasing the quantity of powder used, or increasing the quantity of shot. And to produce better “penetration” increase the quantity of powder used, or decrease the amount of shot.

It is on advantage to place a large charge of shot in a small bore, as it only increases the column of shot in depth, but not in width. The result of this is the shot get jammed and great friction is caused in passing out the barrel. If large quantities of shot are to be used, the proper way is to use a larger caliber of gun.

The exact amount of ammunition required to be used with each gun, to give the satisfactory results to parties owning the gun, can only be ascertained by repeated trials at the target.

Below we give a general formula for loading:

Gauge Weight Lbs Barrel Length Shot Oz Black Powder Drams"

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I developed an Excel table but lack the knowledge of how to add it and not lose the formatting.

My opinion of this is to "Use enough gun"! If you want hunt Rough Grouse with a light gun then do so. If however you also desire to hunt tough, late season Pheasant you better get a bigger gun!

Mark

I saved this to my "pictures" and was able to read it at almost 500%. I'll try to add it here at that size.

Smith recomendations until at least 1913

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../384609954.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../384609956.jpg

Thanks for sharing this Mark, I blew up to 200%. Heavier guns for heavy loads, and bigger gauge for heavier shot charge, shocking :)

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...kerlaods2x.jpg

Mark,

I'm pretty proficient with Microsoft Excel. Email me a copy of the page with the tables and I can do it for you.

Frank

Yes, and the table says you can use a 7 1/2lb 12 with a 1 1/4 oz 4 dram load. More recoil than I want but the gun was made for it and my point remains that these are all Parker facts worth knowing and letting others know about when they ask what they can shoot..

Factory loads like that and less are commonly available at sporting goods stores. And Rem, Win, Rio and Fed all make light recoil loads, too with under 1 oz of shot and low speeds., as does RST.

It is hard to read but the printing is different from the 1 1/4 for both 10ga loads. I believe that both loads listed for 12ga are 1 1/8 ounce not 1 1/4. If so there would be a significant difference in recoil.

I changed it, thanks. I sure hope the powder is OK?

Gentlemen,

What we need is our reading glasses and an old time magnifying glass looking at the actual (not blown up) scanned document. Anyone got a magnifying glass?

The fractions are very hard to read.

Mark

Yes, for 12ga its 7 1/4 to 9lbs 1 1/8 at 3 3/4 to 4 drams black. Still too stout for my liking but that's what it is.

I have an original catalog containing those tables. Get me an addresss, I'll make a photocopy and send it.

What about hang tags? You need hang tags too? The 16 hang tags were 1 at 2 1/2 during the 1920's. The 12's were some at 1 1/8 others at 1 1/4 at 3 and 3 1/4dre during the 1920's. I have a 16 tag and I think I know who has a bunch of 12's but I would have to paw through them. I don't have any 20ga hang tags but there is the Smalll bore Shot Guns brochure which gives loading for anything small .

So will the guy who reads the chart, runs out to buy heavy modern field loads - and ends up missing a few fingers '..when we let them know about when they ask what they can shoot..'. I'd never recommend anyone shooting anything. Period. Why??

I haven't seen the gun, measured wall thickness, seen the condition of the bore, size, dia, wood condition, whatever - all of it... And even if I had - would defer that to a QUALIFIED gunsmith... And I can assure you - no qualified gunsmith will make a prognosis based on pictures, descriptions, whatever - certainly an Internet description.. They'll require seeing it in person...

And oh - BTW - 4dr of FFF (about 108/109gr) behind a 1 1/8 load (12 GA) is about 6900~7000 PSI (primer depending). Modern field loads are "how much higher" (see below - I never ask a question that I'm not pretty certain of the answer.. That's just me, tho') ..??

In short - I'd never suggest shooting heavy modern loads until the Parker is checked out by someone qualified. - And I'd never tell them what they can shoot, as I'm NOT a qualified gunsmith..

And oh #2.... Just to see the pressure differences..???

3dr of BP is about 4900 PSI... (7.5 shot - 1 1/8 OZ) ~1,205 FPS
3dr Equivalent (21gr WW 450AA (great powder!!) of SMOKELESS is about 9600 PSI - ~1,205 FPS

So, here is the next question....

Since the Parker Reference load table is all Black Powder... Anyone know the PROOF load for BP?? Want to guess if it was lower than even the 9,600 PSI smokeless load listed above..??

Best to all,

John

Bruce,

Can you scan the tables and email it to me? Scan at 300bpi or better and it should be nice and clear.

Robin

Yes John, your point is why I was/am reluctant to get into specifics like this. I tried to point out that the table was obsolete and being from Parker in black powder would make it more history information. Nothing was or is a recommendation, just historical information but I will add this explicitly if the FAQ remains.

Thanks John! I just looked, you did it for me before I could get back there.

John,

I agree that all guns should be checked for barrel wall thickness and overall condition.

You made a good point about the smokeless dram equivilant pressure being different that of black powder. The proof table used by Parker is on page 515 of The Parker Story.

Caution is good and no one is suggesting feeding their Parker a steady diet of SAAMI Maximum pressure loads. The guns however were built to take those pressures. They are however about 100 years old so one should be careful and limit the amout that we punish them.

PS: Bruce I sent you my email and snail mail addresses if you would be so kind as to send me the table?

Respectfully,
Mark

Hi Robin,

Yep - I alread added that in RED ;) As well - I changed one typo:

Black Powder Drama

to

Black Powder Drams...

Frankly - I should have just left "Black Powder Drama..?? ;) :)

Best to you!

John

At the same time that Parker Brothers stated in the "Small Bore" brochure that a 7/8 ounce 20 gauge load was excessive and "not recommended", they were building guns in 20 gauge intended for 1 ounce of shot and 3 drams equivalent loads.