Does overboring affect value
 

Looking at a local gun shop at a B grade that the barrels were overbored early in its life. Would this adversely affect the value? Gun is otherwise original and in great condition.

Thanks in advance.

They may have been built that way. A lot of Parkers were overbored. Especially any made pre-1910 or so. Wall thickness and choke would be most important things to look at. And bore condition of course. Bore diameter is kind of moot.

Back in the early days Parker Bros. guns were well known to be overbored and at least some of the loading companies put up shells specifically for Parkers with oversize wads.

Attachment 93778

Attachment 93779

What, in fact, was the nominal bore diameter of a 12 ga Parker pre 1910 ?

Thanks

I owned a 1890 CH that if I remember right was .750

The nominal bore diameter of any 12 gauge barrel is .729” which will require 12 lead spheres (balls) of that precise diameter to equal 1lb. exactly. Overboring to a larger diameter is not “nominal” for any gauge.





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Dean:

Thanks. I realize over bore is not nominal as related to factory. That is why I asked the question. Most of my modern 12 ga. guns are larger then that up to .735 and even .738 in some of the after market work by Briley and Angleport.

I believe this to be .760....thoughts on that?

In my opinion, as regards Parker shotguns, if it can be proved a gun was overbored by the factory, that gun's value is not compromised. Having been overbored any place or any time by another entity the gun's value may be compromised.





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I think you are asking what is the typical bore diameter for a Parker of this timeframe. That's a great question. I'm not sure that there could be any definitive answer since many guns may have had some barrel honing or polishing over the course of time. My own early guns do indeed have bores larger than .729, sometimes quite a bit larger, but the real key for me is the barrel wall thickness.

There had been a lot of discussion ten, twenty, even thirty years ago by some very eminent Parker owners and researchers on the topic of what in fact a lot of these overbored guns really were. And it was decided that a number of them were chambered for 12 gauge shells but bored to 11 gauge specs. or various other chamber, bore and choke combinations.

See my next post.





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I am quite happy to pay a market price for an overbored Parker if the wall thickness is generous. I assume that large bore early guns and single trap guns were made that way at the factory.

Regarding overboring and chambering of Parker hammereguns I invite everyone to read Richard Hoover's very detailed article "A Quest For The Elusive Eleven-Gauge" in Parker Pages Vol. 3, Issue 3. Mr. Hoover has had ongoing discussions (until their deaths) with the late Charlie Price, the late Bill Furnish, the late Austin Hogan and the late George Flaim concerning this very topic.
Mr. Hoover, incidentally, makes several mentions of "underlifter" or "underlifters" never once writing simply "lifter."

I have both a full collection of every published paper issue of Parker Pages as well as the Parker Pages Digital Archive, and I must say that the digital archive is fully searchable and is far quicker to use and find information than the paper publications.... but I'll never get rid of the paper ones.


Incidentally, Mr. Hoover attended, at least once, the Parker Smith tent at Deep River and offered to measure anybody's Parker to determine what gauge it was bored and chambered for. He was always in search of the elusive 11-gauge Parkers and had compiled a list of serial numbers of true 11-gauge guns. And, get this, he could tell what was factory bored and what was not original but what was honed and polished.





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I believe Austin Hogan made this graph of 12ga. guns. For the most part below the 60,000 serial number range, the bores could be in the .750 range. I have a 12ga. lifter that's .745 and a top action that is .756. After that, most 12ga. guns were in the .730 range. I've never measured a 12ga. Parker below .730.

I second Dean's comments.

As to value, if the wall thickness is adequate, overboring improves patterning and increases the value of a Parker as a shooter to me. I do not observed any additional monetary value though.

If the wall thickness is inadequate, overboring kills the value (monetary and otherwise) for me and every collector/shooter with any sense

Nominal bore diameters -

12 gauge - .729"

11 gauge - .751"

10 gauge - .775'





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mobirdhunter:

Exactly my question. Thanks

Dean:

Thanks. Thats what I was looking for.

And sometimes you find unusual dimensions. 1877 Grade 2, number 1 frame. 28”. The gun has a serial number and each barrel is numbered . Overbores at .736. long chokes at 4 1/2 “ and long chambers at 2 7/8”. Left and right chokes are identical at .016 “ constriction . Close examination does not show any indication that the gun is other than as it left the factory.

Many collectors are interested in how these old guns are dimensioned , there is so much variation .

Sounds like exactly what I’ve been looking for!

Those dimensions are right as rain, factory original.