case colors streak
 

Was reading an article in the Spring 2015 issue of Parker pages by Mr. Charlie Price and on page 4(first two guns on top) he talks about the original case gun on the right having a floor plate streak. Could somebody fill me in on what the floor plate streak is?

It is the front to rear patch of lighter color on the floor plate and is more easily observed on Trojans, VH, and Ph guns where there isn't a lot or any engraving to disguise it.

It is caused by a very minor temperature variation across the floor plate during the color case hardening process.

Edgar Spencer's 1928 VH in pristine original condition.


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1906 16ga CHE

Checked my original case colored Trojan and the streak is there like the gun you have pictured. Does this streak appear only on original cased Parkers and not on re-cased guns? Also-The engraved gun pictured by the other gentleman is alot harder to see as you have acknowledged.

Every once in a while we will see a recased gun with it but they are few and far between. And I wonder, in a refinished gun, if that stripe isn’t more of a welcome but unexpected result than intentional.





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Forgot to ask if the streak is also present on the late Remington guns?

I don’t have any Parkers produced in Ilion and haven’t seen enough of the lower grades produced there to comment on that. Perhaps someone who has some will comment and show us.






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Odd... as I recall, nearly every parker I have had re-cased has had it.

Yes, it is dependent on the case hardening process. But more a function of how the trigger plate is machined. The channel in the plate for the unhooking slide results in a dramatically different thickenss of material up the middle of the plate. This is really the main reason for a difference in the appearance and patterning of the colors in that area.

And I will add that not all original examples are that pronounced. Every gun is different.

Here is a Remington Parker.

True Brian, and the variation in thickness of the plate where that channel is machined results in the variation in temperature across the width of the plate I made reference to.

As I recall, you send your case coloring work to DTR and they are expert in the various case colors of the various gun makers of old.

Dave Trevallion showed me his 20 gauge Trojan he had restored himself and sent it to Doug to color case harden. I honestly believed it was a very high condition original, stripe on the floor plate and all. David told me that Doug had done it fifteen or more years earlier. I was really surprised but shouldn’t have been, knowing the accuracy of Doug’s work.





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Well I guess I can throw the streak theory out the door in determining if the case is original since some of the re-blued guns have this streak as well. I also noticed that the GHE-28 gauge for sale in pictures #43-46 and 47 show the streak on the floorplate and had me thinking that the case was original on this gun but since re-cased guns could also have this I remain skeptical.

Nonetheless, that GHE Skeet gun is still very desirable.





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Bruce, if I could ask you a favor, could you please post a picture of the floorplate of the woodduck gun. I fell in love with that gun.

No question about that but there is a big difference in the price of an original case gun and one that has been redone. At $20000 I think I would take a chance on this gun but if past auctions are any indication-then the gun should bring north of $45000.00+ if original. In fact a 28 ga.GH brought $58650.00 in a Julia auction in March of 2013. Believe me I would be a bidder if I didn't have any questions as I have been looking for an all original- high condition VHE or GHE 28ga. for awhile now.

I get it John, and I would also be a bidder on this one regardless of originality IF it had an original straight grip.





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I wish I had your knowledge on Parkers then I would have more confidence on bidding on these fine guns. I haven't seen anybody on the forum come out and say for sure that the case and barrel blue are legit. By the way-I know the straight grip is rarer and probably more desirable but I still like the pistol grip.

I really can’t remark on the originality of the case color, or for that matter much of the rest of the gun. But if I had it in hand to examine I wiuld have a much better idea. Regardless, it is still a desirable and valuable Parker.





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1902 CHE 20ga. Original A&F case with accessories. Turkish Star Damascus pattern.

Because the discussion is case colors , this little 20 ga has lots of case colors but does not show them well in a static photograph.

Bruce, the "woodduck" gun is wonderful. With roundel engraving too!!!! Doesn't get much better. I think Cs are the best grade.

Bruce, thanks for sharing, beautiful guns. I have never seen any engraving like the little 20.

In the Parker Pages article by Charlie Price which Mr. Bastiani referenced, Charlie's pics of guns retaining original colors, show a dark streak more often than those with a light streak and more on the order of the Remington Parker that Reggie B has shown in this thread. It appears they could be either way with either a light or dark streak, but nonetheless; with a streak.

Right Greg - I should have, instead of saying "light" streak, said a streak of a different hue.





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Brian is correct in that the inside of the floorplate is machined such that there are three areas of mass; the outside two the same and the center, much thinner. See my work of art below.

The outside square represents the packing box. Surrounding the part is the packing media, which is an organic mixture of the makers own recipe. The drawing shows a theoretical cross section.

There are three factors involved: Random, Variable, and Fixed.
The Fixed factor is the part being heat treated.
The variable factors are Time and Temperature
The Random factor, almost entirely human, is the location of the part, in relation to the inside walls of the packing box, location of any other parts also in the box, and the density of the packing material.

The entire part is held sufficiently long enough for the core of all sections to reach the same temperature.
The quench process is where the magic occurs because the three areas of mass are cooling (from the center outwards) and while the quench media is still working at cooling A & C, B has gotten as low as the quench media will allow. Everything started at the same temperature, was ultimately soaked at the same temp, and eventually back down to the same temp. However, the rates at which they rose, and cooled was controlled by their mass.

Edgar, we really should have known.

Looks like a Picasso... Nice job Edgar.

Thanks for putting the entire process into layman's terms for us. Your experience in the field of metals is invaluable to us.





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What a great thread you initiated, John.

And exemplary. It quickly brought in some valuable knowledge, original graphics, rare insights, and magnificent gun photos, all freely given, from some of the top mavens in the Parker gun community.

Best of luck to you as you move forward in collecting such fine pieces as you are now considering.

Good call Brian. Makes sense that any difference in metal thickness would cause temperature fluctuations.