If grouse, woodcock and trout are your life...
 

....where would you retire?

I am about 10-12 years from retirement, maybe sooner and I'm starting to fret over this. I love my home, my land (88 acres) and some family is still here. But I'm growing weary of NY State. Our kids will not come back here. Taxes go up and up. Our home is nice, not a million dollar home by ANY means, but my property taxes are $18,800 a year. I don't think out West will work for my wife and we want to be near kids, a day's drive but we don't know where they'll end up. Everyone is moving to Tennessee these days (or Florida ugh..). I want trout fishing, grouse and woodcock hunting, any upland birds in addition. I am a stone's throw from the Catskills so trout fishing is amazing. Anyone care to share their dream location whether you live there or not? I don't mind winter but mind it more and more every year.

Andy,
Try looking at Central South Carolina. Trout fishing in the Western part and bird hunting just about all over the state.

Up state or central Pennsylvania !

I have a good friend who has in-laws in northern Idaho. According to him it’s a bird hunters paradise there!

getting to be a common conversation for upstaters

My wife wants NC near surf city and the coast. Carolinas seems logical. But Idaho is what I hear for fishing, hunting, biking, skiing and just being out there.

The western Maine mountains. You might have to travel an hour or two for woodcock but everything else on your wish list can be easily found there... and then some!





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What a great decision. Trout season is much longer than bird season, so that is a factor.

Upland bird has always been a great time, especially with family and a great Parker at our side. I would take bird cover, then travel to fish.

Hopefully, only 9 more years for me to decide.

!

Dean I could handle that but I would be wifeless. She loves Portland Maine though. We were married in Camden so the state is special to us.

Tough call, the older I get the more I think about it. I’m pretty happy here in norther Ohio, a few hous from fantastic grouse and woodcock hunting in northern MI, and walleye and perch fishing from my home. But, the older I get the less I like the cold, I too wonder where is the place to bein 10 years.

I'm a widow having lost my wife to cancer some 8 years ago. My oldest daughter and my grandson live with me and my other daughter and family live just 10 minutes from me. They would be apoplectic if I sold the house here in Plymouth, Mass and moved out of state. I'm locked in. But if it were possible to move it would be to northern Maine where I could hunt and fly fish to my heart's content. And Sophie, my setter would be in heaven.

Virginia is full.

In order to preserve hunting and fishing we are cutting off Northern Virginia as soon as possible, letting them become part of Delaware, Maryland; maybe even D.C. to make state number fifty-one as promised (or fifty-eight as Barack said he had visited). We are hoping for a border wall as soon as possible, and like NY forbidding all out of state vehicles from getting off I-95. To sweeten the deal, we will throw in Richmond, Charlottesville, and Norfolk/Virginia Beach. They can keep the like-minded Governor and his mansion on the hill with fences around it and give him a second term since he is so well loved there.

As our beloved President Jeff Davis said, "All we ask is to be left alone." (We have one more President here than y'all do. The newest one is really number 47.):)

It might be good to consider what other factors might be important. Do you want to live in a higher population area? What about the healthcare nearby?
There are places in the "middle" of the country that have great features for an upland hunter and angler. SE Minnesota has some of the best trout fishing you'll find outside of the mountain west. There are grouse there, and flighting woodcock, but not in great numbers (but almost no grouse hunters -- it's big buck/turkey country), but you'll be a shorter drive to some of the best, and most available, grouse/woodcock hunting in the northern part of the state. Great healthcare at the Mayo Clinic...if you can get in.

During the 10-12 years you have before you retire, you might try hunting and fishing in some of these prospective places. Also, consider hunting some other upland birds and fishing for other species (I know, sounds like heresy!). There are some great places to live in low population areas, do some great upland hunting, and fish most of the year. If you are not far from an airport, your family can visit whenever...and they might be more inclined if traveling is to a place that's like a vacation site for them.

Good luck. Dream big, but consider some of the other variables (as I'm sure you are).

(BTW, We have 160 acres in addition to our house (a quite small older house for sure), and our taxes in Missouri are about $175 for the land (farm taxes are very, very low) and for all other things -- house, cars, tractor, etc -- we pay about $1700 -- a far cry from what you cite. Of course, our roads are crummy, our schools not so hot, etc. BUT our Conservation Dept. is a model for the rest of the country as it is funded (at least for now) in large part by a 1/8 percent sales tax. The population in the top two tiers of counties in Missouri is lower now than it was in 1900, and land is cheap enough that guys from out of state buy it up for hunting. So many things to consider, but you have time.)

I appreciate all the feedback and opinions. About 7-8 years ago I was having a mental overload with work and packed up one of my dogs and drove to Minnesota. Rented a cabin in the woods by myself and grouse hunted alone. My wife was not very happy with me, calling it "selfish and foolish" to go alone. It sure did straighten out my mind and I remember, "This is what heaven must be like...birds, a cabin and endless vistas of second growth." I know it's not realistic as we need more in life, but I can always dream : )

wow, 18k a year in taxes, that you know will be used efficiently and wisely.... :-)

I don't pay but 1/4 that here in MO, and I have a nice home, and some acreage in NC Missouri with a small cabin.

My wife and I are approaching retirement soon, and this topic comes up a lot. Do we stay here or move to place that has some of the activities we love close to our front door. Fly fishing, golf, hunting. I am thinking about WY and keeping a smaller place down south somewhere for Jan-Mar living, as the older I get the more I dislike winter. :-)

This is a common question in many parts of the country. I'm a fourth generation Coloradan with deep roots steeped in the western traditions I was raised in. Colorado has experienced absolutely crazy growth from people relocating here from other states and because of this, things here are changed forever.

Just about everyone I've talked to that have been long time Coloradans all have the desire to pull up stakes and move somewhere they see as their utopia. I'm in the same boat myself especially since I retired three years ago. I'm in a situation where I am the care provider for my 90yr old mother and can't move because of this. Believe me when I say, if things were different I would be out of here. I've thought about where I would go a lot over the years and have came to the conclusion they there is no perfect place, especially as you grow older. Things are changing so fast these days with so many people on the move from one place to another that it makes it really hard to pick a place because the place you have chosen will be changing as more people discover it and move there as well. One big factor to consider is when you move into a new state or small town. You will be an outsider and it will take a long time for you to be accepted & may never be fully accepted.

I've even considered leaving the country and have looked at some of those options, but have come to the conclusion that's not realistic for me. It's really too bad that Mexico is so screwed up. I could easily live some where in Mexico where it's warm year around and has great fishing, upland bird & waterfowl hunting close by combined with a low cost of living.

I dream of these things, but the realities of life have me tied down, so these things will remain a dream for now. Good luck with you're personal dreams, but keep in mind that ten years from now everything will be different due to how fast things are changing in this country. America is on the move!!

Montana!!!!!

Of course! I love Yellowstone country and could surely survive there. I could spend my lonely winter days writing letters to my wife because I would surely be alone :crying:

Kodiak, Alaska, can't beat the fishing and switch from grouse to Ptarmigan.

I live in Pawling, NY and the taxes are horrible. I had always thought that upon retirement, I would move to Estes Park, Colorado. I took three trips a year there hiking to altitude for greenback cutthroat trout. It's a great town and taxes are low.

But I decided to retire to Pawling, my home town. I have great hunting and fly fishing at my doorstep. You might consider Colorado. It's beautiful and there are some really nice towns. Travel to prospective locations before you retire. The town of Estes Park is beautiful and you can fish the many rivers in the area. It is also within striking distance of Wyoming and the wonderful North Platte river. Hunting is great in the North Platte area north of Casper. Many mule deer, pronghorns and elk. You don’t need a guide. Just drive out of Alcova and explore. You’ll see much game on open government land and damn few other hunters. No grouse and woodcock but the sharptails can keep you busy.

If you decide to go out there, send me a message and I can tell you some great spots for hunting and fly fishing.

I looked on a map. YUP, you're in the high rent district there within striking distance of NYC and CT Tom! Thank you, always wanted to get out the the Estes Park area.

the southern states like Georgia Alabama Mississippi tenn..are great states...not much cold good hunting good fishing...fairly cheap taxes.and best of all good people to live by....most of the time... charlie

Shhhhhh! :cool: Just kidding. My wife and I love SC. We're gonna go between Tucson AZ and SC in a couple years. I just sold my practice this past December and if Colorado continues to head the direction of CA...I'm out of here sooner than later!

Taxes at 18K/YR ought to be a crime!

Andy, you posed a great question that I have pondered for years. Back in 1983 when I graduated from optometry school at Ohio State, I was adamant about wanting to move where I could hunt grouse and have good fishing for smallmouth and walleye. To that end, I took the board exams in Michigan and Wisconsin, and took a driving/camping tour thru Northern Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula. I was also going to take Minnesota boards. I was then offered a position in an HMO Medical clinic eye dept just 10 miles from where I grew up. Well, everything I wanted was there. eastern Ohio had phenomenal grouse hunting with a season that came in around Oct 10, and went thru the end of February . The woodcock migration was good in November. Hunting 2 1/2 days/week with good dogs( we shot pointed birds only), it was common to shoot 40-50 grouse per season. Flushes of 30 birds/day--not counting reflushes--were not unusual. Then in 1986, I made my first trip to the UP, and have not missed a year since. The grouse hunting wasnt better in the UP than it was in OHio and West Virginia, but it sure is a hell of alot easier. Flat ground and lack of blood letting briars was a welcome change to us brush worn Appalachian grouse hunters. One week trips ,turned into 10 day trips, then 2 weeks and now 3.
Then the plummeting of the grouse population to almost endangered specie levels happened. The DNR said poor habitat, thats bull, I spent the day today in fantastic grouse cover, no birds. In 2009 I told the DNR it was West Nile virus--have a MS in Microbiology, and was working on PhD--now look what they have suddenly come up with--WNV!
Well , I digress. Good fishing is certainly easier to find than good grouse hunting. I love the UP, and the great northwoods of Wis. and Minn. Idaho offers such a wide variety and really piques my interest--I believe I'm going to have to go there in upcoming years.
Congrats Shawn on your retirement. My wife loves South Carolina also, esp around the Hilton Head area--cant really see the bird hunting very good in SC, what with the demise of wild quail and dearth of grouse in the mountains now.
Andy, tuff choice. My heart draws me to the Northwoods, but my wife wants to head South. Good luck on your decision.

Thanks Harold!

We could be neighbors and head southwest to AZ for the winter to chase desert quail! :bigbye:

Yeah, and we could move in on my veterinarian brother in Ashville, NC and look for some grouse in the mtns there. He's got a Fox Model B in 20 ga that I gave him.

You're overlooking one of the finest game birds ever created, the Mourning Dove. Dove shooting in the Carolinas and Georgia can be spectacular.

SRH

Harold, I really love your reply and thoughts and am envious of the time you've had in the field. I feel like I'm too old at 56 to just start discovering these wonderful guns, but heck, gotta start sometime. I graduated optometry school in 1990 and did a residency and then decided I wanted my own practice. It just turned 30 years old and I look back and have done well but missed a hell of a lot of time in the woods and waters. I'm trying to change it. 8 years ago I reached a point of total burnout and headed out with two guns, one dog, and drove to Minnesota alone and rented a cabin in the woods. My wife was MAD. But I got birds, bad shooting and all, and I got back to the grindstone. I am going to just cancel a few days and go to Maine this fall, alone or with someone, as I need it after this COVID year! I keep telling myself "there's always tomorrow" to hunt and fish and I have to start just making it happen. I hope to shake your hand this year Harold and I appreciate your thoughts on this stressful topic.

Bucket list. Have never shot one. I see them sitting in the trees and phone lines and they look pretty easy : ) NY doesn't have a season although I've been helping lobby for one for years. The downstate doorknobs won't allow it.

I have lived in Western NC all my life, the far west for 13 years. I got my first Brittany in 1987 and we taught each other. Killed 3 grouse that first year. The next year we knew more about hunting, the habitat to look for, shot a little better, and my dog made a lot of progress. As Harold said, hunting and finding grouse was good. We hunted nearly always on NFS land and I’ve said myself before that three were as many grouse here as the UP, but I couldn’t wait to get there. My first trip was 1989 and my brother and myself planned to go every year, and did until 2000. I’ve been a couple of times since but it wasn’t the same without my brother.
We began to see less birds here in the late ‘90’s to the point it was hard to go regularly as it became just a hike. We always blamed it on habitat as the forest service just didn’t and haven’t cut much timber as it didn’t suit the tree huggers.
I used to think about going where the game was, but I think I’ve figured out I’m just a hillbilly, so I guess the next time we move will be when one of the girls need us to be closer.
There are lots of creeks and rivers to fish in, several lakes, good opportunities to be outside. Lot’s of folks have discovered our area and they want to be here, but they want it to be just like where they left.........but it’s still home to me.

We will have to disagree on that Stan. Dove shooting, is well, just shooting. No hunting involved--and yes I have done it to pass the time before real hunting starts. Maybe because it just wasnt tradition where I grew up.I will usually go once a year. Honestly, not trying to dis doves, just not my thing.

If dove shooting isn’t hunting what is deer hunting? You sit in a tree and wait for one to walk by. Dove hunting involves knowing their feeding habits, watering and roosting and being there to shoot them? I have only deer hunted once in my life and was bored to death sitting in a tree freezing my butt off! Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Which almost mirrors East Tennessee Mike!

My humble apologies to the dove shooters, as soon as I hit the submit button, I thought, shouldnt have said that. Didn't really mean any disrespect .There was no dove season in Ohio until the mid 1990's, so just wasnt something we did, no tradition. I know its a big deal elsewhere.
Im not a big deer hunter either, but cant hunt birds during gun season in Ohio. I need to walk with a bird dog out front to be happy.

The folks who never have had to scout doves to plan a dove shoot are usually the ones who think of it as only shooting. The man who did the leg work and put in the hours of work determining if there were enough birds feeding there to invite a dozen or more people is definitely a hunter. Most dove hunters I know have paid their dues and done their time scouting. I spend many more hours scouting than i do shooting.

No problem, Harold. It's not always easy to understand what goes into a hunt until you're on the other side of it.

SRH

Interesting topic. Knowing what you want seems to be almost as hard as affording it. About the only thing I want more of is October. And I’ll be spending those in the north woods talking mostly with a Setter and occasionally cussing at myself.

When the kids were growing up they liked the beach and we would hit that for a week. I usually I would hitch a ride on a Big game boat and we’d run 80 miles out to the canyons and fish for tuna or white marlin. That was fun, but couldn’t do it often the beach is biggest part of 8 hours away. Had to compromise and settle for a Great Lake beach and walleye and steelhead fishing. The boat at 25’ hard top is half the size of fishing vessels but still plenty of adventure. And just 2 1/2 hours from home. The sunsets are just as epic as any ocean. World class steelhead stream fishing, no it isn’t bending cane floating drys at Henry’s Fork and the waters are never as emerald as the Shoshone coming out of the gorge. But the lake run bows will rival their relatives from the Cinder River on the Alaskan peninsula.
All of that is in NE Ohio, and yes it features winter as a season, but can be very beach like 5 months of the year. Grouse aren’t there but you can be at the Mighty Mac in about 7 hours and you’ll have driven past a few grouse already.

Oh boy a feud : ) I once fished on Catharine Creek outside the Finger Lakes for running rainbows with a friend who madly wanted us to go. My buddy and I fly fish. We used weight, egg sacks, spinning reels with ungodly long rods. It was H E L L. My buddy told the guy who took us, "Well, the NASCAR blaring on the radio from your damn RV on the side of the stream kinda spoiled the mood dude..." The response was firm and strong and I realized we're all in this game together. It's better than shooting up crack and looting 711's. We all have a common theme whether it's deer, doves or mudbats. My proselytizing is over.

If I was to pick just one state for fishing and hunting...it would be Idaho...my home state. You can still get access to private land by knocking on doors or calling people and asking. There's more blm and state land then you could hunt or fish in a life time too. Idaho has stream access to the high water mark even on private property. I've fished the Big Wood River in Sun Valley right in all those Hollywood elite's backyards...had em yell at us but they couldn't do a darn thing about it. Idaho has 5 species of grouse, valley quail, bobwhites, pheasants, chukars and loads and loads of huns. True bird hunters paradise.

Idaho has been on my radar for several years now, but would probably take 3 days to get there. Its variety intrigues me. Does your brother the optometrist share yours and Andrew's passion for upland hunting and fishing?

Idaho would be heaven.