Primers
 

I made my weekly trek to my club this past Tuesday. After my group was finished with our round of Sporting Clays I was informed by the target setter that the club had received with their last shipment 12,000 Cheddite 209 Primers. I have been trying to find primers for the last two months. I, being polite as I could, I purchased 2,000. Now back in business of reloading and not having to scrounge for factory ammo at ungodly prices.

That is good news. Our club is completely out of 20 gauge shells (except for steel shot which you can't use anyway).

Hopefully primers coming back is a sign the wider shortage is about to end

If it ended before the Alzheimer’s patient was out of the White House I’d be amazed .

Only 2000:nono: I'd have at least gotten 5K...better to have them and not need then than the other way around :rotf:

I learned my lesson. I'm buying every time I see them from now on. If we get back to those days.

Rich,
I thought that way at first. There is a group of six of us that receive our components from Backwoods Quail Club. It cuts the hazmat fee. I was actually fourth in line purchasing the primers. Good to see your name pop up. Hope all is well.

Would one of you experienced reloaders be willing to comment on reports that since the Cheddite 209 is about .001 larger than the Win 209 it has the tendency to cause your hull's brass to stretch enough so as not to be able to use Win 209's after?
I am also grateful for the announcement here on their availability. Many thanks Quigley97!

I've used Cheddite 209's extensively over the past 8-9 years after they became readily available and can feel no difference in pressure to seat the primer in once-fired American hulls, as compared with Winchester and Remington STS 209's. Also checking some open box Winchester and Cheddites just now with a Starrett vernier micrometer ..... both measure .242" diameter plus/minus a tenth (.0001”) or so. I use the Cheddites for 4 loadings and then switch to Fiocchi 616's that are slightly oversize at .243" Starrett diameter for the last 3-4 loads before discarding the hulls. Yeah I know the Fiocchis are pretty much unobtainable nowadays.

Not so. I also have used Cheddites, maybe 40,000, and now for reasons have gone to Win primers and have no problems with primers falling out. Two of my old SxS hammer shotguns [1873 Remington and a Parker made sometime in the 1880s ] will pierce Cheddite primers but not Win primers. I don't feel like paying for new firing pins, so back to the Win's.

Excuse me but "not so" to what in my post? I'm now on my 7th 5000 count sleeve of Cheddites and never had one fall out of a Gun Club, AA, Nitro 27, Federal paper or Gold Medal plastic. Also it's hard to argue with a micrometer. Maybe you can tell us more about your reloads?

Primer piercing? That can happen if the firing pin is too long or the tip isn't profiled or it's been gas cut. Yep Winchester primers might be less prone to that but I've seen it happen with Wins and other brands.

Sorry, but while Cheddite primers seem OK with modern guns, they often pierce with older classic doubles that have firing pins intended to function with older ammunition that had more deeply positioned primers.

You can alter the gun. Or you can simply switch to Winchester or Federal primers. IF you can find any these days!

John,

I seem to have a different problem with win209s. When I load with them, the English guns want to stick on opening. When I switched to cheddites I don't have any issues. Everything else is the same (powder and charge, wad, and shot weight). I don't know why the win209s didn't work. This wasn't just 1 gun, but 3 different guns.

Ken

not an unusual issue with some guns - my Super Fox only sticks with Winchester primers - reloads or factory rounds

In follow-up here I'll say that many Fox guns are hard or almost impossible to open after firing with Winchester primed shells. Yes you'll find an occasional Fox that works OK with Wins. On the other hand a switch to Cheddite (as used in factory RST shells) or Fiocchi or Remington primers will usually make for an easily-opened Fox. The tip of the Fox hammer is the "firing pin" and since the hammers are not rebounding, the tip(s) will drag in the primer until cleared as barrels are opened and hammers recocked. Modern primers are not like old time ones made of relatively soft copper alloy. Net, since I'm mainly a Fox guy that's why I use the three primers cited almost exclusively for all my vintage double-guns.

Then there's my VHE 20 Parker that locks up after firing when using Federal shells; the first time I fired it I had to take off the forend and force the barrels open. Quite a scene on its debut while shooting with my sporting clays gang. But that Parker opens easily with Remington and RST (Cheddite-primed) factory shells. Now, a sensationalist might say Parkers and Federals don't like each other but I know many Parker owners that use or reload with Federals with no problems. I guess what I'm saying here is that one or two data points (or guns) don't make for a solid conclusion.

True Frank. Every gun is different but, as you know, Parker firing pins are the same - they are the tip of the hammer.

Possibly removing the hammers and polishing the tips (firing pins) to make them more drag-free could be a solution...





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Thanks Dean, that would probably work but so far I've avoided doing that because the VHE's screw slots are pristine. "Never a screw turned" as one gent used to advertise in the old Shotgun News. Ha ha. And since I don't use Fed primers I'm OK with the shells and primers noted.

So I hope I am not inappropriately changing the topic but...being new to the Parker world...here's my follow up question...if you have to fight a bit to open the action after firing a round isn't that doing harm to the Parker?
The reason I ask...after purchasing my first Parker a couple years ago I took it to SD to work on some pheasants. I ran out of my handloads (which were loaded to a spec recommended on a discussion board here) and substituted a factory ammo (now can't remember brand or data) and started having to exert a little bit of pressure to open the action. I stopped using the factory ammo because I thought it might be harming the shotgun. Is that a legitimate concern for these Parkers?

Did the factory ammo happen to have steel heads rather than brass? Budget ammo like Remington Gun Clubs, Federal Top Gun, Winchester Universal etc use steel hulls and some guns can be fussy with them whereas premium hulls like Win AA's, Remington STS, Federal Gold Medal use brass.

It would have been Winchester, rem or federal and definitely had brass not steel. Sorry but I just can't remember which one or the specs. The gun did not require a lot of muscle to open but it didn't fall open either. At the time I wasn't thinking primer issue but worried too much pressure was causing some kind of damage. However, based on your question I will now go back to my ammo closet and see if I can figure out exactly what i was using.
I have since used the Parker hunting with hand loads for hunting and super light factory loads at the skeet range- no problems...

As you've seen, primer selection and cartridge loads can effect the function of many old doubles. So can firing pin tip condition. If they've been roughed up by corrosive priming in the past, they can stick. The action's cocking speed is also a consideration. Because of the design of the Parker's action, it can pull the tumblers back to cocked position a bit slower than other designs. (For more details, please see my new book, Birth of The Boxlock) It can all add up.

Chris, in answer I'd say you're not doing your Parker or any other vintage double-gun any good by forcing it open due to using contrary primers or shells. Your hand pressure puts a "bending moment" as in Mech Engineering/Physics on the barrels and if you've got a barrel rib(s) with weak solder attachment that could cause it to further loosen or pop.