Load Limit for 3" Repro
 

I would like some information on what are considered acceptable loads for a 20gauge Repro. Obviously there are some guns chambered for 2-3/4" and others chambered for 3" shells. Other than the barrel length and choke I can't tell a lot of difference. So my question is - what is the reasonable load limit in the 3" guns? Would any modern factory load be reasonable? If not, what would be considered the max load/velocity? My understanding is that the concern is not the chamber or barrel, but rather the stock being eventually damaged/broken. Thanks!

A reasonable load limit for a 3" 20 gauge Repro would not include any 3" shell. Just my opinion though. Others may differ.

I agree with Bill. I often wonder why individuals want to shoot the high powered stuff, even in modern guns. Low recoil shells will do the job if the aim is correct.

The 3-inch shells normally used by people in 20 ga. guns (mostly for waterfowl hunting) are some of the worst patterning loads commercially available. Unless shooting an autoloader, the recoil of a 3-inch 20 used in the standard weight spectrum of fixed-breech upland guns (e.g., 5 1/2-6 1/2 lbs.) will REALLY get your attention! There are so many truly superior 2 1/2- and 2 3/4 inch shells on the market (RST, B&P, Gamebore, Fiocchi) I can't imagine why anyone would go to a 3-inch gun in a 20 unless for a truly dedicated purpose like turkey (live or card) shooting.

I was 30 when I got my Winchester 101. I bought a box of 3" Winchester shells. There are 21 shells left, and they're 42 years old. Do the Math:
(30 x 101 / 3)/ (21/42) = Cost of a new Stock
Your results may vary

The gun would have many uses, including, to Kevin's point, going after turkey which could require moving to a heavier (3") load to provide sufficient pattern density to kill a turkey at a given distance. So I am trying to see if anyone has information that would indicate what the makers of these guns considered a reasonable load when they offered a 3" model. I have seen the term "overload proved" on the barrels of these guns, but have no idea what that means. Thanks!

The Parker repro barrels with shoot any current factory load safely.I think the max load for the 3" 20 is 13/8 oz of shot and 31/2 dram of powder.As others have said,it will kick you out from under your hat and pattern horribly.The 3" 20 is also a slow load that throws a long shot string.The gun can handle the max load,but you will hit more and kill more with a 7/8 oz load.

All of the advice you have received here is spot on!

The 3" 20 gauge loads do NOT pattern well. Useless for turkeys where your target size is about that of a tangerine and the holes in the patterns of most commercial 3" shells are two and three times the size of that tangerine. And for turkeys you don't need the kind of earth scorching power those shells produce. All you need is a pheasant load of #6 or #7 shot at distances under thirty-five yards.

Further, Parker Reproductions don't have the best reputation in the category of stock strength.





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Thanks for all that posted. This is all good information and very helpful! Thanks!

The new monster 3" 20 Gauge turkey loads carry over 1 1/2 oz of shot and they kill at both ends. I do shoot them out of a modern 870. Can't imagine shooting them out of a repro. As I call during the time period Repro's were made, that the normal payloads were 1 1/4 oz out of the 3" shell.

Yes those shells are monsters. In fact, its the direction I have seen turkey shell development of late and around the TSS loads, in particular, that have turned me in the other direction and pushed me to look for other guns and means to turkey hunt. Yes, I tried them early on and yes they will flat put a turkey down at obscene ranges, but I reached a place where that wasn't for me. If I can't get one to 35 steps then maybe I am not a very good turkey hunter. I also read not too long ago that "beautiful birds deserve to be hunted with beautiful guns"...I couldn't agree more. So the quest continues for the right Parker (or Repro).

A number of years ago I was having difficulties in skeet switching from the tubes O/U to the 11/87 for the 12 gauge event . So one night after a Bass and or Guiness to many I loaded up a case ( real case of 500) of 20 gauge 1 ounce loads for the 12 gauge and doubles events . Shot a couple rounds at home and crushed the birds . So two days later I was off to Winston Salem for Bruce Evans Piedmont Open at the old Bingham and Parks club . Day we arrived I was shooting a practice round with Robert Paxton with my high octane loads . I crushed all twenty five and he asked me what I was shooting . I told him and he told me every time I pulled the trigger my head cane up off the stock . He handed me a box of factory AA 7/8 ounce and said shoot these and again I rolled them all up and my head stayed on the stock . After that weekend the 20 gauge ounce loads for skeet were over . I realize they weren’t three inch stuff but it works along the same lines . Since that time the ONLY 20 gauge ounce loads I’ve shot were at Pheasents . Now with that being said if I ever acquire a Superposed 20 3” or an Auto 5 20 Mag I wanna pattern some of the Federal 20 gauge 3” #2 buck loads and of course waylay a poor innocent deer .

So I've continued to research this topic and wanted to revisit the question. I found a 3" Winchester Longbeard XR lead turkey load that carries 1.25oz of shot at 1000 fps. Just curious from a recoil perspective how this would compare to a 2.75" pheasant load of 1oz at 1200fps. Am I right in assuming that nobody would be concerned about shooting the 1oz load, but (and I am certainly no expert) would the recoil be that different for a 1.25 oz load traveling 1000fps vs the 1oz load at higher velocity? Of course, my main concern in a repro is stock damage and I understand that recoil is the concern here.

Assuming a 7 pound Parker Repro the 1.25 oz/1000 load would have a free recoil of 20 fp and the 1 oz/1200 load in the same weight gun would be 19.1

Gary - thanks that is very good information and quite helpful. How do you make those calculations? I looked for a calculator tool online but they require the powder charge weight. How do you know what that is for a commercial load?

I've never for the life of me been able to figure out why someone invented the 3" 20ga shell. And in a light Repro, which will kick plenty hard enough with standard 2-3/4" loads, they make no sense at all. Repros have a bit of a nasty habit of snapping at the wrist also, given some of the fancy wood they used on many of them. I know of one that snapped twice using normal loads. Even if the gun will handle them fine, your shoulder will not. I used to have a light 12ga Merkel S/S with 3" chambers. I took along a couple of shells to try while duck hunting. I shot one shell.... and, like Edgar, still have the other. That just plain hurt!

Richard,
A few comments/questions on your response:

(1) what is considered a "normal" load for a 20 gauge repro?
(2) It seems to me that not all 3" 20 gauge loads are created equal. Not sure that a 1.25 oz load @ 1000fps is all that different than a 1oz load going 1200 (at least how I read Gary's analysis above). This again begs the question of what is "normal" and are ALL 3" shells in excess of this "normal".
(3) Are repro stock wrists really as prone to break as I keep hearing?

Thanks,
Rud

I've never had a 3" chambered 20ga so don't really know what "normal" is for them. I don't even like to shoot 1oz loads in a 20ga repro due to the recoil, especially if shooting clays and going through 5-6 boxes of shells. I shoot all 1200fps, 7/8oz loads in my Parker 20's, and they're heavier than the repros and have stouter wrists. A friend had a repro 20 with a very nice curly wood stock that broke through the wrist. He sent it to a gunsmith who replaced the stock with another gorgeous curly pc of wood and when the gunsmith went out to test fire the gun the stock broke on the first shot.

I had a 3" 20-gauge Repro but never fired 3" shells in it... I learned my lesson long ago with my 20-gauge Ruger Red Label. I tried shooting a couple of boxes of 3" Federals with that gun at trap and disliked the recoil intensely. I was a much younger man then too, and much better able to withstand physical abuse but swore I'd never shoot 3" twenties again.
I took a 2nd place trophy for the season at my trap club with that Ruger (everybody else shot 12's) but with 2 3/4" shells, not 3". When I shot those 3-inchers my scores were terrible and not because of the recoil I don't believe... they simply pattern poorly.





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The biggest problem with 3" 20ga is not just the recoil,but the shot string.Each gauge has an efficient shot to bore diameter ratio.When you pass that efficient ratio the shot sting lengthens.If you look at Bob Bristers book "Shotgunning the Art and Science" you will see that the 3" 20 with 11/4 oz of shot has a very long shot string at 40 yards.That is why you shoot at the lead bird and one 4 birds back falls.You will put more pellets on a crossing bird with 7/8 oz than with 11/4 oz because of the shorter shot string of the 7/8 load.

I learned a LOT from Bristers book.

I would not shoot any Winchester long beard shells in any Parker, check out the thread on this site where it most likely blew up a model 21.

The powder charge and wad weight are part of the calculation for free recoil since they exit the muzzle. However, they are inconsequential compared to the shot charge and gun weight and muzzle velocity.

The shells you questioned have nearly 20% more recoil than a standard 7/8 load at 1200. Twenty foot pounds of recoil is substantial. It will thump with authority. Take everyone's advice and leave the 3" shells in the store.

So if one needs to stick with 7/8 load in the 20 repro to best eliminate potential stock damage - what does one then shoot out the 20 gauge repro fitted with 16 gauge barrels?? Are they as bad a concept as the 3” chamber?

The potential of breaking the wrist of a Repro’s stock is... I won’t say overblown because it has happened and for various reasons, but I wouldn’t be overly cautious and cheat yourself from enjoying your Repro to it’s full potential.
Heck, if there is a lot of figure in the wrist or the grain is poorly set up for strength, do what Parker Brothers did... have a hickory - or some other material - reinforcing rod inserted theough the length of the stock and shoot it to your heart’s delight.

Brian, can you do that sort of work?

Regarding the 16 gauge Repro barrels - I think they’re a great idea and certainly fill a perceived need - that of a multi gauge, multi barrel gun. I normally shoot 7/8 oz. loads in both my 20’s and my 16’s but I would have no qualms about shooting 1 oz. loads in the 16 gauge barrels.

Let’s look at the Parker Reproduction “Steel Shot Special.”
Aren’t 12 gauge steel shot shells loaded to about max SAAMI specs, or close to it? Hou about wrist breakage on those guns? Do we hear anything about that, any more than we do about 20 and 28 gauge Repro stocks breaking?.... not that I’ve heard or read.



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Charlie kills turkeys with a tight choked Parker .410. Shoots them in the head and neck after calling them close in .

A Steel Shot Special has about twice the wood in the wrist as a 20 gauge Repro. That might explain why we don't hear much about SSS wrist breakage.

A straight grip Steel Shot Special is no different than other 12-ga. 1 1/2-frame straight gripped Repros, they have a 4 1/4" circumference at the wrist. A 20-ga. 0-frame straight grip Repro has a 4 1/8" circumference.

So, effectively, they’re the same size as far as strength goes...





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Most Steel Shot Specials that I've encountered have been stocked with California English Walnut. In fact, I can't recall if I've ever seen one stocked with anything other than English Walnut. In my observations, a much greater percentage of 20 and 28-ga. Repros are stocked with Claro Walnut. I believe English Walnut with a characteristic of being straighter grained than Claro and is inherently stronger than Claro which may account for less incidence of breakage. Plus the fact there were about five times as many twenty and twenty-eights produced as were the twelves.

I’m sure we’ll never know why English, sourced in the US, wasn’t used on all Repros instead of some stocked in claro, also sourced in the US.... was it cost, or availability, or both... or just a whim?





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West coast “English” walnut is only casually considered the same as English walnut Juglans Regia and while less interesting, has a solid grain which would be hard to snap.

One of the selling points of the SSS was that they were stocked with English Walnut, at least that was what John Allen told me when I purchased mine at Game Fair in Nashville back in the day.
I really can't imagine it is unacceptable to shot a 1 ounce load of moderate velocity out of a
6 3/4 lb 20 gauge, I think that is what mine weighed.