When is a Parker not a Parker
 

When considering buying a Parker or used bespoke gun and you come to learn through your own research that the gun, in several aspects, is not original but the seller's asking price is if it is. I have interest in a gun but the wood, barrels and engraving are all not original. It's a freshly finished resto-mod at a market price for an all original gun. It seems like I'd be paying just for the name on the side of the gun. What's the best way to handle the price negotiation with the seller? The gun makes sense albeit at a lower price.

Sounds like your describing a Frankengun. I’d probably just walk away. There are plenty of original guns and restored guns on the market right now.

Sounds like your describing a Frankengun. I’d probably just walk away. There are plenty of original guns and restored guns on the market right now.

Jay is so right he had to say it twice

:rotf::rotf::rotf:

You likely wont get anywhere with it. But point out your position and offer the seller what you feel is fair. The worst can happen is they say no. But... they may work with you. Some dealers make a practice of starting very high and coming down to earth regularly in order to make a sale. As there is no way they would sell any guns otherwise at their asking prices.

Or, the seller may not know it is not original. Or trying to take advantage of buyers that may not know.

Sorry about that. Forgot where I was and thought I was talking to my wife.

:):):):):):)

No matter how much you like it, the amount of changes you describe say it will never bring near what an original would bring and you may kick yourself when you find the same gun, original and in decent shape for a fair price. I can say all that because I have already made that mistake. I would offer him a fair price if you like it for a shooter and explain that you would prefer an all original gun if you could find it......and you will, given time. Good luck, there are Parkers and others that are just not worth the investment after someone else has messed them up. One I recall was Sheriff John Slaughers 73 Winchester,
It was well documented, he was known for bringing them in dead or alive, mostly dead.
The owner just had to refinish it, the gunsmith double priced the job and tried to talk him out of doing anything to it, but he had it refinished and ruined a priceless piece of history.
Find a good original piece, the search is half the fun and you will be proud you passed on this one.

I think calling an otherwise well restored gun a 'frankengun', is a bit of a stretch. We all Ooo and Ahh when Brian posts pictures of his restorations. A person could have any number of reasons for having his gun restored and apart from three surfaces getting a new life (Bluing, case colors, and stock finish) it's still the same gun. To say it's not worth as much as an unrestored gun assumes it was in better than average condition prior to restoration.
A seller making a presumptive statement regarding originality is, as Brian says, down to ignorance; his or hoping for yours. If the seller is unwilling to trade for an acceptable price, walk away. That's no different than any transaction regardless of originality.
Configuration and rarity play into the equation alot also. Case in Point; Steve Barnett has recently aquired a lovely DHE 28 gauge from a well known CA estate. It has been totally restored by Doug Turnbull, and I don't particularly care for the texture of the barrel blue; the remainder very nice. Easy for me to say, not having a spare $29500 in the bedside table drawer, but If I did, I could get over that barrel blue, pretty damn quick.

If a gun has just been restored, I agree. However the OP indicated the stock and barrels are not original, which I took meant they are replacements. Cobbling a gun together with parts of other guns is what I refer to as a "frankengun."

I agree, Jay, but from the OP's wording, I can't tell if he's referring to parts from a different gun entirely, or simply refinished original parts.

Such guns can be good for shooters, but the price should reflect reality.

If I can add a couple of corollary comments. What Mr. Dudley writes about pricing high and gradually lowering the price until someone bites creates another problem. A person with less experience sees on line offerings and doesn't realize that a high percentage of listings going unsold week after week or even months is NOT a realistic way to know what a condition X gun's true market value really is. This lends to even more over priced listings from inexperienced sellers. Unsold doesn't help a seller and hurts us buyers.

Next, I lean toward Edgar's points that lack of collector grade authenticity isn't anywhere close to making a Parker not a Parker. My sense is a restoration done by a name brand entity can come darn close to what the same gun's true value if in original shape. And a beat up specimen brought back to shootability with an ooh-aah look may not be collector pure, but it sure does increase a gun's desirability vs. a lower condition gun. For example, I'm eyeing a 16 with a 1 frame VH offered for a great price. Nicely refinished, the ooh-aah is present and to me it is very worth the low price knowing full well 3/4" was trimmed from the original 28" barrels since it delivers skt/IC chokes that I want the gun to have anyway. Not going to pass under the theory it ain't mint original.

A third comment is over a VH the local shop just took in. The shop owner showed me the gun claiming it is mint original. I told him he was wrong, the gun was too good to be true. An old Parker dating to 1900 that perfect unfired looking would have had to be wrapped up and stored in a dark and humidity controlled enclosure for 120 years. I tried to be nice while explaining that otherwise the case colors would show at least SOME fading, and on this gun case colors didn't look typical Parker anyway...just a smidge too brightly colored with a LOT of smaller multi-color swirls and dramatic color changes rather than a more blended subtle color change transition. Been awhile since seeing a fresh del-grego, but said even if it is such a re-do could be worth the $3000 asking price regardless. Don't think the shop owner likes me as much now (grin)

Rick

I would ask that you re-read what I wrote regarding pricing as what you stated is NOT what I wrote.

I said that some dealers put their pricing very high. And must come down (through negotiation) to a more realistic price if they hope to sell their guns. Or if they happen to sell at that high price, then good for them.

I was NOT talking about a reverse auction scenario where asking prices are gradually reduced over time.

Unless you are trying to purchase an original Invincible or BHE 410 there are probably other examples of the gun you are desiring to purchase either available or will be. With that in mind, offer him what you believe is a fair price. If he lowers his price negotiation can begin, if not leave your name and phone number and limit the time of your interest. Then walk away. Attaining 95% of the Parkers ever built only requires time and money, sometime lots of both.