English doubles
 

What is the reputation of these two makers? Do they rate discussion in "Other Fine Doubles" ?

Charles Boswell
Hardy Brothers

Thanks
Jack

Boswell is noted for pigeon guns. Although most Boswells are boxlocks, they have a certain aura of quality that surpasses the boxlock reputation as a second class shotgun. The "pigeon gun" mystique helps to keep Boswell above water in the English gun market. Boswells have the Scottish influence in the receiver and stock cheek area which most people find unattractive. I am presently building a custom pigeon gun at great expense with just these unattractive features. Oh well. To each his own. I would love to find a Boswell pigeon gun that meets my requirements for condition and price.

Bill: Here are some pictures of the Boswell. I have not had it in hand. It lives about a thousand miles from me. It was re-proofed in 2003 and opened to 2 3/4 inch. Proof is 850 BAR (Approx. 12,325 psi), so it should be okay as a pheasant gun :) I know nothing about these guns. Is there enough info in the pics to consider a ball park value estimate? It is 120+ years young.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...pictureid=1952
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...pictureid=1951
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...pictureid=1953
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...pictureid=1954

Where are the pix?

Cherry's in Greensboro, NC had a Boswell pigeon gun on their website about 6 months ago. 32" barrels F/F with PoW grip. Nice gun for $1,850.00 as I recall.

The wonderful little pigeon gun at Cherry's was a Cashmore. I am still having trouble sleeping after missing it.

boxlocks
 

Boswell had a reputation for "best" boxlocks - the few I have handled have been very nice.


As for Hardy Brothers - they made best grade fly reels and tackle -I would expect a shotgun bearing their name to be a product of the Birmingham trade, a solid gun, well made but not a true "best" grade in the English sense.

The pics are showing on my screen but it may be an issue with the albums. Changed one of the album parameters. Are they showing now??
Cheers,
Jack

Yup, nice piece of wood and it looks to be in very good condition.

So, you gentlemen took an old geezer looking for something as simple as a set of barrels and passed on an affliction. If I buy this thing, I will have passed from Parkeritis to full blown double-gunitis. I think along the way I was warned about Parkerits and if it got a good hook into me, double-gunitis would likely follow. Also warned there is no cure. Thanks :rolleyes:

Hey Jack, do ya know the definition of ReinTARNATION is??

Comin' back in the next life as an "Old Geezer" with a big ol' double gun!

:biglaugh:

Since you addressed your question to me, no, I can't give you any idea of value other than the fact that proof must be accompanied by a barrel wall measurement to make an acceptable gun. Apparently, many guns make UK proof with unacceptable wall thickness.

Bill, I don't want to steal this thread but can you explain that? I don't own a British gun nor do I expect to but, over the years I have been told that no one can work on a gun there without proofing it, or some such lingo. Anyway, my point is that their government has a set of, what seem like stringent rules, to insure safe gunning. On this forum there have been several discussions about what constitutes thin barrels and from my view the topic never had a true definitive definition to when they became "thin".

I would have thought a recent test from a certified proofing house would indicate safe barrels. :vconfused:

A gun "in proof" only means it has the stamps. A gun in proof could have been restruck (sanded or filed on the outside) or bored out on the inside since the stamps were struck. The only way you can determine in your own mind whether the gun is still in proof, no, don't send it back to England, is to measure the wall thickness. This is the way we in this country choose to determine the safety of old guns. Proof does not impress us too much because lately we have heard from people who know, that guns have passed modern proof with barrels in the .020 bracket. Supposedly there is a low limit on the thickness of barrels that will be accepted for proving, but that limit is lower than is comfortable for American collectors.

Speaking only for myself I would much prefer to inspect my own gun barrels for any kind of flaw or damage, meticulously measure barrel wall thicknesses and shoot appropriate loads than send it somewhere to have it subjected to ever-increasingly strong proof loads to ascertain that it might not become distorted to the point of permanent "wall hanger" status.... but that's just me - I like to shoot my guns.

I thought that an English gun that was "still in proof" meant that it still had the dimensions it had when it was proof-tested. ie: bore gauge. If gun is stamped 13 on the barrels, then it was proofed at that bore diameter. If the gun now measures 12 gauge, it has been opened up to that larger bore diameter. This modification would mean it's no longer "in proof" and should be re-proofed (technically).

Now, one has no idea what the wall thickness was when the item was proofed, so like Bill said, it could have been struck/filed & you wouldn't know.

So the valid point is that proper barrel wall thickness is always a tangible measurement.

Here are the barrel wall measurements:

Muzzle: .065 L .054 R
9": .037 L .032 R
15": .037 L .032 R
24": .052 L .054 R

The left barrel is marked "Not for Ball", apparently indicating choke-boring.
The original bore dimensions are stamped .728" in both, after lapping they are stamped 18.6 mm (.732") in both. I'm told they chime when suspended from the hook, too.
So lapping (honing?) reduced original walls by .002, if I have the math right. Anyway, the thickness appears fairly "stout", so sounds like they might just be able to handle a few more rounds. Soooo........

If anyone here knows any reason why this gun should not find its way to the pheasant fields of Saskatchewan, let them speak now or forever hold their peace.

Of course it would take its turn with the Parkers. :)

Cheers,
Jack (about to succumb to doublegunitis it appears)

sounds like the parkers will have to share the stable with some one else....i have several differant brands in my stable..... charlie

That sounds like a safe gun, Damascus or steel. However, the proof dimensions only cover the inside of the barrel, not the outside. Most English guns that have proof marks but thin walls have been made that way by striking and reblacking over the years. You determined the suitability of your gun by the correct method, measuring the wall thickness.

So, now into the dark realm of doublegunitis. I'll be communicating later today with the seller and then I'll just have to wait ten months to visit the creeks with it and take a couple roosters.

Cheers,
Jack

Be very, very carefull or you'll catch rifleitus. This affliction completes the perfect storm of the itus afflictions, Parkeritus, Doublegunitus and Rifleitus. I have fought long and hard to fend off Doublegunitus and so far have fared well :crying: haveing only one O/U and no SXS other than the odd Parker. I crave an English 20 however.

COB how about a certain H&H Royal 16 ga.....remember that one.......!:rolleyes: I really thought you were going to pull the trigger on that one.. You had that faraway look in your eyes.

Yes I remember well that lovely 16. It was a close call and one of the few times when rational behavior was adhered to:cuss:

Rational behaviour? How is that defined on this forum? Passing on a H&H Royal after already achieving glazed eye status - is that the definition? In the pre-PGCA life, I think I had a handle on rational behaviour, now I'm content to make up a definition to fit the circumstances.
Cheers,
Jack

I'm a big advocate of buying guns with O.P.M. (other peoples money). I have sold blood plasma, robbed Peter to pay Paul then mugged Paul, Visa it's everywhere fine guns are sold, home equity loans and 0% credit card offers all in the pursuit of a fine Parker or a Pre 64 Winchester M70.

I therefor define rational behavior as not using any of the above methods of finance to purchase the H&H Royal 16 at $30K+. It was a nice gun, I liked it, I wanted it but for once I listened to that faint inner voice and reluctantly but rightly passed:eek:

A friend who checks in here occasionally will identify with the situation of which you speak. He once had long term custody of a matched cased pair of 16 gauge Holland and Holland Royals. Somehow they slipped away. Maybe he will relate the sad story.

If ever any of you fellow's need any justification,excuses or rationale for buying a gun...any gun I am the master. I have a full list for any situation....so if you need one in a hurry just call........and...Oh ya they are $10.00 each....cash..:rolleyes: Hey wait a minute I think I just came up with another way to raise gun money.....:biglaugh:

Last weeks deal was elementry....I was all out of 28" gun's

luckily - i don't require justification - I have all the guns I need,

but I discovered that each new dog arrives without a double of his own, and that just isn't fair. So I buy them one as a welcome to the new home present.

I am often asked how many shotguns I have. My response is that if you know how many you have, you don't have enough!

Very good Jeff.....Can I use that one?.....:)

Be my guest. Add it to the list. Be careful Danny may be reading!

I think it will cost you $10

Thanks Jack...I think....:rotf:

Guns are to men (real men not those hippie tree hugging wimps) what shoes are to women. How many do you have? More than I need not as many as I want! I like to break it down this way, early Grouse season a DHE 26 inch 20ga cyl/IC, mid season after some of the leaves are down and the Woodcock are in also a VHE 28 skt/skt, a little later in the season a GH16 0 frame damascuss 28 inch tubes choked .004 & .010. Same theory for Pheasants, just different guns...read more guns:rotf:

Thanks Jack I missed that one!

Jack, I have a hammer gun that I love to shoot it is a William Atkinson I know it is not a major gun mfg, or I do not think so. Is it a Birmingham gun?. 28" 28ga,mono blocked barrels "steel" and proofed.

Gary: I don't know the English guns. Found this brief note on Atkinson

ATKINSON WILLIAM SHOTGUN
hE WAS A GUNMAKER IN LANCASTER ENGLAND 1881-1901
THERE WERE SEVERAL GUN AND TACKLE MAKERS LISTED WITH THE ATKINSON NAME SOME AS EARLY AS 1840
source

Cheers,
Jack

Just getting used to "doublegunitis". The Boswell arrived today and it is just a very pretty little gun. It is a 12 ga but it feels light to shoulder. The damascus is quite lovely even if it is English brown. It has been opened up sometime, as the right side plate is proud of the wood. I will resist the urge to play with that - for a while anyway.

Cheers,
Jack

Pictures Jack...We need pictures....:)

I'll try. Pretty shaky on the shutter release these days.:rolleyes: Rat poison and a daily medicinal ounce of single malt don't mix and not allowed for any reason.:nono: New glasses yesterday too, so I don't see the world as I used to. (Just lining up my excuses for out of focus shots)
After the robust frames and barrels of the Parkers, this has a "toy like" appearance to me, but I won't stand down range of it.
Cheers,
Jack