Damascus Warning
 

I suspect the topic has been discussed before, but i can't find it. Is there a definitive date when Damascus barrels were declared "unsafe"? Was it simultaneously by all manufacturers or by one company? Being the cynic I am, if several companies sent out the message at the same time, one wonders about collusion

There was no specific date but of course there was collusion amongst gunmakers and ammunition makers (often being a subsidiary of the gun manufacturers) in that they wanted to create a market for their “new, safer” fluid pressed steel barrels. So what better way than to say pattern welded barrels would not hold up under the stress of smokeless and nitro powders.





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Some of the propaganda had to have been fixed. And then it just bred more propaganda that continues to this day

I visualize the gun makers of the day having a meeting.
"Look, the market is saturated, these guns seem to last forever - we gotta do something".

Exactly!

After WW1 you also had the problem of supply of Damascus tubes .

When was the first alert published? By whom?

I will guess it was first announced or warned of by ammunition companies.





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Possibly. But, more likely, the covert discussion went like this:

"Look, these new fluid steel barrels will add at least 30% more profit to each gun we sell. They can also be bored easily by machine. So, we have to convince the market place that those expensive Damascus barrels are not any good. Let's all tell our customers that Damascus is dangerous with smokeless powder. And the barrels could blow up and kill them.

They'll believe us. We're the experts. And everybody believes advertising."

And so it came to pass...

(no Russians were involved in this scam)

I figured it was an economic decision, but never thought about the possibility of scarcity of tubes after WWI.

I remember seeing somewhere a vintage ad touting the strength of the "new" fluid steel barrels as being equal to Damascus in strength.
False advertising, of course.

No Russians involved, but they did it for the children ; -)

It seems to have really taken hold in those grim Great Depression years when the makers were desperate to move some product any way possible. They may have picked up the idea from the early Western Super-X 3-inch 12-gauge boxes which carried the warning --

INTENDED FOR USE ONLY IN SHOTGUNS THAT HAVE 3-INCH CHAMBERS AND MODERN STEEL BARRELS

Attachment 79706

Jeff has a good point and I never thought of that either. I know Krupp barrels aren't seen after 1913 or so

Krupp barrels were pretty common on Ansley H. Fox guns to about 1920, and I've actually seen a few marked CHROMOX FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL on top of the barrels with vestiges of the Krupp markings on the underside.

That is what I was thinking about. I assume by 1920 they were just using up old stock?

If I remember(a problem) in the information on Dr. Drews site it gives a date when the ammo manufacturers assoc. decided to print the warnings on the box. 1937 comes to mind but i was amazed it was so late. My thought being that if it were a problem why did it take 30 years to come up with this. All recollections subject to correction with a guarantee of 30% accuracy. Check out his site ,it has a wealth of information.

Hoping Dr. Drew chimes in soon . . .


Good point Daniel and also that would be around 15 years since the Super X and heavier loads were introduced.

A.P. Curtis published a two part article in the July 1936 and the March 1938 American Rifleman entitled “Advantages of Short Shotgun Chambers” (courtesy of Larry Brown):
SAAMI, assembled in serious conference on March 26, 1937, passed the following resolution: “That an appropriate warning label be placed on all boxes containing smokeless powder shells, cautioning the consumer against using them in short chambered guns and also in guns with Damascus barrels and guns not in first-class condition.” The motion was made and seconded by representatives of two powder companies.
That same conference also passed a resolution requiring: “That all guns be marked so that the consumer will be able to tell the chamber length, as for example by marking 2 3/4 inch chamber etc.”

“These shells must not be used in guns with Damascus or Twist Steel barrels” warning appeared on shell boxes shortly thereafter.

Even RST boxes state: “To prevent injury to shooters or bystanders, use only in modern shotguns (not Damascus twist barrels, etc.) with proper gauge, load, and chambers.”

More mythology and creative journalistic hysteria here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...hIiY62Hx4/edit

I guess i am not as far gone as my kid's say. Thank you Drew.

When i was in London 3 yrs ago visiting Purdeys, they had a beautiful 12 ga damascus double they had made for a customer. Damascus not so out of date for the right money i guess.

First noted by “No Fingers” Jenkins at a skeet shoot in PA.

During the Depression , Ithaca Gun Company was in trouble as were others . Ithaca had been advertising and warranting all its fluid steel and composite barreled guns as safe and warranted against bursting. A new president was brought in at Ithaca and promptly started an advertising campaign promoting only fluid steel barreled guns and saying that the old ones were unsafe to shoot. Many outdoor writers were given free guns and wrote articles to the same effect.

Since composite barrels ran out in the late 1920’s there was no need to defend the old barrels. Buy a new gun because the old ones are unsafe was the advertising ploy. And the outdoor writers got free guns and free hunting trips.

The new Ithaca president became president of SAAMI and continued his campaign against Damascus guns. He was much the personable type and well liked. He increased sales at Ithaca and the company survived.

Some time ago I published advertisements and industry letters documenting the above.