Has the market for average Parkers bottomed???
 

I have been amazed how the market for good average Parkers has collapsed over the last year or so. I'm not talking about project guns or closet queens but nice shootable guns with good original finishes. Not only the lower grades but even grade 3 guns. I just bought a 12ga DH with 70% CC and mechanically perfect for $1500. This gun was a $3000. gun a few short years ago in my opinion. Is it the internet making it a national market or what?? I collect antique decoys and that market bottomed a few years back but has come back strong the last few years, how about vintage guns?? Decoys attract the folk art crowd but will vintage gun be considered folk art and appeal to a larger market??

With the Internet making it so easy to look for the gun you wand and being able to sift through literally dozens of guns that near perfectly fit your requirements, of course price becomes more and more of a determining factor. And the sellers have come to this realization and are responding to it with more competitive pricing.

The white-haired collectors and shooters are thinning their collections and this can be termed a flood to the market. This, coupled with fewer numbers of younger folks being interested in classic old shotguns affects the market.

That’s my take on the situation.





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I am very interested in this subject but from a different angle. When I have made an offer to a private seller they point to an old Blue Book valuation with the comment '' it must be worth a lot more now''. I have been trying to help in the sale of a high grade gun in which the owner insists on the book value even though I have shown him the exact gun unsold on this forum at half what he wants. I have had no success of late with buying at what the current market seems to be. Hope springs eternal I guess.

I see many 12g guns from most makers are really priced better than just 2 or 3 years ago. Seems like the small bores have retained their asking prices but the 12s have dropped significantly. Maybe reality has set in?

Ditto on Deans comments but from my view the market is flooded with nice D grades and they are being sold very slowly. When I became involved in doubles damascus guns were valued at about half of a steel barreled gun and were not moving very quickly at that time. As the market peaked through the 90's and early 2000's damascus guns became very desirable, especially high condition examples. As the market continues to shrink I believe the value and interest in damascus guns will be the most effected.

Shooter guns have fallen right out. So bad so, I am hardly interested in buying them for resale. Unless they are so cheap that they are guarantee for a flip.
It isnt a matter what price they will sell for, it is more a matter of IF they will sell at any reasonable price. People just do not seem to be buying them. I think it is because the interested parties already have a dozen just like them and dont need more. Guns are just like cars. There are simply more than there are people to use them.

+1 to Brian

My Uncle Howard said when things are bad, people think they will always be bad. When things are good, people think things will always be good. They are wrong both times.

Some old stockbrokers in Savannah used to say buy when the Yankees sell and sell when the Yankees buy. Those stockbrokers got rich

I wish I was buying, and not selling.

Part of it I will say is that the market has gotten inflated. People on here complain about the lack of young people coming into the hobby. Well answer me this, where is the cheap nice condition entry level parker? It doesn't exist. A decent condition trojan ought to be a relatively affordable gun, but they hover up around 800-1000 bucks for a 12 gauge. This will be an unpopular opinion, but in all honesty a 12 ga DH shooter condition gun probably should be a 1500 or so dollar gun. They aren't rare by any stretch. Now don't get me wrong, I love my 12 ga DHs, they are my favorite parker to collect, but that doesn't mean a shooter grade gun shouldn't be priced accordingly. High condition/collectable guns are a different matter, but people have overvalued the shooter condition parker in my opinion.

When I first started getting into Parker’s, I was buying up everything I could find that I THOUGHT was a good deal.. Realized pretty quickly that it’s much smarter to find guns that already work for me, instead of trying to make the gun I have work. I’m sure some people love them, but 2 frame 12 gauge 30” Full/Full Parker’s are pretty much useless to me. That’s what I’m seeing languish on classified sites.

Asking prices stay higher than market prices because people hate to sell anything for a loss. It can take a long time for asking prices to correct. If sellers cut prices for say a 12ga Trojan to $300. to $500. I believe sales would increase. How many of you have said to yourself my gun is worth 50% less than what I paid, I will just keep it. That thinking slows down sales and reduces the number of buyers. Same happens with real estate and wall street.

Yes craig. It is not quite yet a full buyers market. It isnt either now. People are not buying and in turn people are not selling. Until prices fall some to reflect that, it then will become a buyers market.

I think the internet had the effect of dramatically increasing the supply. I have seen this happen with old books which I have collected too.

It will also keep a number of guns from going on the market and when/if demand surpasses supply, prices/values will begin to rise.





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I'm pretty sure that I could not get what I paid for many (maybe, most) of my guns. I did not buy them to sell, though, and I'm at peace with using what I have for the purpose for which they were intended.

I do think that the interest in old doubles peaked and until something happens to change that, things will remain the same or worsen before they get better. The demographics of double gun collectors will see to that.

I know that the market is down....like any other commodity it does that. Supply and demand is the major factor. In this case of SXS shotguns demand has dropped off for lots of reasons and the supply is overflowing. Motivated sellers willing to get out will take what the market will bring and go on, others will not. Myself as a gun dealer/collector and trader I must weather the storm, be willing to get creative, at times take losses and just make the best of it. I see several SXS guns for sale that I would like to add to my safe, don't have the cash flow and can't sell or trade what I want so it slows it all down! It was a bad year for gun wholesalers and some gun dealers too, we lost a whole bunch of them due to soft markets. Most of the members here and quality gun collectors as well I would think can afford to weather this down turn till the supply side drops and prices rise. I still see good desirable guns selling....that's a good thing! I bought two DH grade 16-s last year that I wanted fore a long time, no fire sale for sure but fair prices I think. I only need to keep one of them, the other is for sale here now but that may change soon....I like it too!!! My safe is full...(-: my gun buying account is empty...)-: And I need a bird dog puppy on top of all this! I will have to keep working a while longer to support all my BAD habits!!!...SXS ohio

I believe the downturn is not limited to big bore guns but covers all grades and bore sizes. Review auction prices - Review GI and GA listings - so many High grade (AAHE Etc....) just sitting for what feels like forever unsold. Even at price points listed well under those of just a few years back.
.410's that were selling at 40K+ in 2000's are in the high teens and low 20's now. Unless in very high condition or with much a desired configuation even .28 bores are no longer "liquid" and selling in a matter of hours as in years past.
All of the above points are correct but I do not believe it is not just limited to Average guns and large bores.
With all that said ....I am excited to be a buyer - Just not yet.....

I sure wish a bunch of depressed priced, long barrelled 20s and 28s would come to market!

"and when/if demand surpasses supply, prices/values will begin to rise.". Can't imagine a scenario where demand will ever exceed supply in this arena. As us old Pharts die off, the guns will be put on the market with no regard for what we paid for them. The widow will want them out of the house, price be damned

We are going through the same thing that is happening in the cattle market and to a degree with 1st gen Colt SAAs.

In 2013, 2014, and 2015 it was really easy to make record prices in the cattle market. You could buy a 1st year heifer, breed her and feed her on cheap grass spring to fall and then sell her when the price for her had almost doubled. People who had no history or experience in the cattle market saw this and started buying heifers for crazy prices because the prices were obviously just gonna continue to go up. Then all of a sudden in 2016 they stopped going up. So drug store cowboys who had bought 4 to $5,000 heifers were waiting for their easy money. It didn't come and prices not only stalled they started falling. My advice at the time was if you weren't willing to wait the 5-10 year cycle for prices to come back up, sell and get out with as much as you can. Many stubbornly refused. They weren't going to sell those valuable heifers until they could get their money for them. 3.5 years later some of them are still waiting to get their price, and have continued to lose money of grazing leases, death loses, falling calf prices, etc. These are people who knew very little about cattle and have no interest in long term cattle ranching, but they are going to stubbornly refuse to sell at a loss, and those 4-5k heifers are going to be dead before the market gets that high again and will have turned into 10k losses. They could have sold out early when the market started turning and gotten out with little loss.

The same thing is happening with 1st gen colt SAAs. People see what an old worn Colt SAA from the 7th Cav with a kopec letter sells for and decide every worn out beat to hell Colt SAA that is a 1st gen is a guaranteed investment grade piece regardless of condition. So you have a lot of 1st gen colts that have set on GI and GB and other sights for a very long time that have no business being priced at more than 1000 to 1200 bucks maybe just because of their age and the history they represent, not so much the gun they still are. You see it too with Winchester Rifles. People decided anything that was a pre 1900 1873 in 44-40 was a 3000 dollar gun. Or anything that had the numbers 1886 on it was big money. Those guns sit while ones that are priced in the right area code sell.

It's no different with Parkers. The parker came to represent a guaranteed easy sell when you wanted to get out of them. In my part of the world, prior to internet sales, a parker was rare because there just weren't very many. I lived in Houston and can count on 2 hands the number of parkers I ever saw for sell at that time in stores and 3 quarters of those were at Collector's Firearms. They weren't rare guns, but they were hard to find because of geography and such. Even respectable experienced gun dealers get into these situations. Pug's been sitting on a BHE for as long as I have been in the parker game that he has refused to come down on the price of, so it sits in his shop collecting dust. Collector's firearms has a BHE as well that is even more overpriced and less collectible than the one Pug has, neither seems to be interested in moving off their price. Frankly, I can't see either of those guns ever selling, without some movement on their price. If you look at Steve Barnett's page, he has a bunch of Parkers, and when I conversed with him about looking for a 1/2 frame DHE 12, he claimed he has more than 100 parkers that aren't even on the sight (only 1/2 frame he has is a BHE...I didn't inquire about the price), you can also look at the prices he has had them listed for vs what he was selling them for a year or 2 ago. Suddenly just about anything with Parker on them is a much higher markup than it was previously for similar condition guns. He has actually raised the price on that Rondell CHE that is incorrect, his cheapest D grade is over 5 grand for a restoration, he wants almost 3 grand for a poor condition 12 ga VH. These guns aren't moving because people aren't being realistic about what they are worth and we don't currently have a bunch of people coming in that are just desperate to buy any parker they can find as has been the case in the past.

Big D....It will be a good time to buy working guns....(-; 12 gauge will take the worst hits. I love hi grade engraved guns....Always wanted a Parker BHE-16 So few made there will never be a fire sale on one of them....maybe a good fair price but,,,,probably I will not have the cash...sadness and despair will set in....maybe a widow will call and say...I WANT IT OUT OF MY HOUSE....it might kill someone any moment. SXS Ohio

I grabbed my coffee this morning and logged in to get my Parker fix for the day. I started reading this post and thought I must be on some Commodities trading website. Pork belly's, Cattle, and Parker shotguns. :)

PML

Good things come and go, prices fluctuate but owning a Parker is something to be proud of...whether you have one or many. I still remember growing up in a small town in Tennessee where there were only two parkers known of, one owned by the county judge and the other by the hardware store owner. Almost something to strive for some day. Now I have a few and love every one of them, sitting by the fire rubbing one down is like a conversation with an old friend. Like the wives say, "Be proud of what you have" , and when someone asks "Is that a Parker", smile and say "Yes it is!" and who knows, the next good one that comes down the pike may just be at a really fair price and good the one you thought you would never find, much less afford and Yes, we will find a way to justify buying just one more and love it because it is a Parker!

I think Mark hit the nail on the head. I've had a BHE live bird gun for sale for quite a while also a nice A1 special upgrade 28ga two barrel set with no takers. This isn't confined to Parkers as two small bore Foxes continue to look for new homes. I talked to a dealer just yesterday and he was lamenting the slow sales also. As nice as it would be for these four guns to find new caretakers they don't prevent me from eating so I won't be forced into a fire sale. Others may not be so fortunate.

Another member of this forum told me about his exchange with a well-known dealer who told him to not even leave several collectible guns with him because they just would take up space on his shelves with no hope of sale

Every gun will sell if the price is in line with the market.
We currently have an alignment problem.
The reverse auction process we just watched Josh use is very telling. I suspect it will become more common in the near future. Maximizing the current market price to the seller without giving 20+% to the auction house. If one truly wants to sell at a fair market price - this seems to be the best route I have seen so far. If one wants to name his price - he may find it difficult to place guns on consignment or run them through auction houses with high reserves. Both, I expect, may eventually stop putting money and effort into unproductive placements without charging fees on the front end.

Well supply is not decreasing look at the number of guns just listed by RI and Morphy's. The bottom of the market is still yet to be reached in my opinion. And hammer guns are falling off a cliff..

most guys with a couple D grade parkers think they have their "nest egg" where an average or Refinished gun will only bring half of the worshipped value.:rotf:

The first time I went hunting with my dads best friend he let me borrow a stevens .410 sxs shotgun. It was the most beautiful gun I could imagine back then. Purchasing the side by sides that I have this last year has meant so much to me. I would rather own an older side by side than anything right now to hunt with. These guns bring back that flood of emotions that I had as a youngster, hopefully I can find some younger people or my grandchildren and pass along those same feelings that I had and we can have some good "moments". I look forward to the future with these guns and I hope more young people can appreciate these older guns like I did and still do now.

The seller wants the best price he can get, the buyer also wants the same thing. Often these are unrealistic figures for both of them.

I just received a beautiful custom rifle that will never realize the initial cost of the build at resale. However I will enjoy it the rest of my days and it wasn't built with the idea of retained value. Besides it's in an odd caliber but thats what I wanted.

If you have a bunch of GH Damascus guns in well worn condition, or a few VH guns in the same condition, put the realistic $400 or less price tags on them and let the next owner try to get $1000 out of them or enjoy shooting them. You will be much happier in the long run. The same goes for the hideous refinished guns you have been hoarding, for whatever reason. Sell them cheap and start over in your collecting goals.

C.O.B. I have three guns that meet that same criteria....CSMC Fox guns, 410,28,16 very expensive, very personalized. The good thing...I'm using 2 of them and the third I bought 2nd hand and hope to break even on it when its sold. Oh...its long paid for and I like it too so whatever. If I enjoy my guns till my last breath I'm good with that, the person who ends up with them will have $.00 in them and will not feel a bit bad about the hammer price! SXS ohio

An old gun dealer I knew over 35 years ago (and now deceased) told me “ a fast dime is better than a slow dollar”! 😊

As a relatively new collector I have paid retail prices on some nice Parkers with no regrets, though I might look for better prices now. I have also found some great deals on shooter quality Parker 10s and 12s on the auction sites in Grades 0-2. I don’t see these guns appreciating much or at all, but they have brought me a lot of joy and I felt good about saving a few. In fact, it has been hard lately not to buy some of the shooter quality hammer guns at recent prices!

It does seem that the 16 gauge and smaller Parkers are commanding higher prices as has been previously mentioned. Perhaps not as high as 5 – 10 years ago, but there is still premium for these guns. I don’t think I have ever seen an original 28 gauge VH for under 10k (which makes it unattainable for me).

So I agree there are some good deals out there now, but it seems highly desirable guns in both gauge and grade are at level I am not at…yet. I am going to focus more on quality this year. I have very nice Parkers I can shoot while I am saving…

Along the same lines, I have also bought some nice antique percussion shotguns and rifles over that last year or two that are works of art as well as pieces of history. And I shoot those as well. The market on antique muzzleloaders has really dropped and I have picked up some nice guns. I would love to find a percussion Purdey shotgun or other top maker, but that is another wish list...

It seems to be a time to buy original lower grade guns that are all there(not projects) and enjoy shooting some nice Parkers…

Life is short. Fill it with folks and things that bring you joy.

Bill; I have always said that 10 dimes is twice as much money as 2 quarters. One just had to work a little harder.

These average guns sell every day for exactly what they are worth. The "Market" is always there and always working. The "market" will pay POS prices for POS guns; average prices for average guns; good prices for good guns; and excellent prices for excellent guns. Below are some recent internet examples of average guns selling for exactly what they are worth.

You can sell every gun you own in 7 days and the market will pay you the value of your gun every time. If that is not what you paid for it, saw others sell for, browsed on some dealer web site, read in some book, or decided for yourself, then the problem is you and not the market. JMO.

Cheers

PML

Parker GH SxS 12ga Damacus refinished w/ case
Price
$1,290.00
Item #:845776929Listing has Ended36 Bids
No Reserve
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Parker Bros SxS 1926 Trojan 16ga 26” BBLS
Price
$909.67
Item #:844241724Listing has Ended35 Bids
No Reserve
•

Refinished and Reblued 12ga Parker Model GH
Price
$765.00
Item #:844324003Listing has Ended34 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker 20ga V 28" Barrels
Parker 20 Vulcan DHE VH Parker Brothers
Price
$1,425.00
Item #:849883098Listing has Ended30 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Brothers Lifter Action 10GA
Price
$1,231.00
Item #:845535347Listing has Ended25 Bids
No Reserve
•

Winchester Parker Reproduction DHE 28 Gauge 26" Straight Stock, MFD 1984-89
Price
$4,225.99
Item #:846733776Listing has Ended25 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros Grade VH 12 ga DB 30" Barrel Its a Shooter
Price
$565.00
Item #:845137485Listing has Ended24 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Brother 12GA English Stock Lifter Action
Price
$555.00
Item #:847717275Listing has Ended10 Bids
No Reserve
•

20 GAUGE PARKER REPRODUCTION DOUBLE TRIGGERS
Price
$3,800.00
Item #:839645130Listing has Ended2 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros. VH 12g Two Barrel Set 28" & 26" Redhead LOM Case PGCA Letter
Price
$1,500.00
Item #:841815543Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker DH 10 Gauge
Price
$950.00
Item #:846029459Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros. 12ga. SxS Shotgun 26" Hunter Arms ? Fulton Boxlock ?
Price
$299.95
Item #:846501860Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Brothers 12 gauge SxS Damascus 30" 1887
Price
$999.99
Item #:847532850Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

1903 Parker Brothers Grade VH 28" SXS 12 Gauge - Beautiful Gun
Price
$999.99
Item #:848617091Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve

The first gentleman that I worked for after college, my mentor I guess you could say, made the statement to a successful businessman that we were doing tax work for-"never invest more money in the stock market than you are willing to lose". In other words your investments should be diverse, with only the amount you are willing to lose be invested in the market. The market is volatile, subject to sudden and unexpected change.

I think the same could be said about the money we put in double guns. Don't invest more in American doubles than you are willing to lose. The market is volatile, subject to sudden and unexpected change. Buy what you like. Like what you buy. But don't put more in than you are willing to lose.

Prices
 

One of our shooting "challenges" is approximately for the last ten years the number of hunting license across the US is slowly declined. We are losing the next generation of hunters/shooters as this number declines the appreciation for better quality firearms disappear so fewer potential buyers for our toys. I was told by one of the Arizona Game and Fish employees last year in the US their were more college shooting scholarships then applicates. Somehow we need to get more kids/families out to our shooting clubs and teach them about the joy of shooting, friendship, camaraderie of the side x side and the lifetime memories they will share in this group. If this happens I think the price issue will disappear, just my opinion.