A question of..Safety..
 

I bought this gun last week. It is on the way to me. The factory letter did not have any additional info..(1923 gun). TPS says there were 216 made...VHE 16..32"..Supposedly choked IM/IM..Perfect bores. Has been used but not hurt. I plan on having this one restored...The question..In place of the safety is a plain piece of metal. From the picture, it may have the SAFE engraved on the tang..Any thoughts would be appreciated...j..

Jerry, my thoughts would be if you are going to have the gun restored is to have the safety reinstalled for obvious reasons. Several yesrs ago a large dealer in side by sides told me he never bought or sold a gun without a safety. He said his insurance carrier informed him he could have a liability issue if he sold one and the purchaser accidentally shot himself.

Bill..I wish I could determine if the gun was made without a safety. The book lists 3 identical guns..consecutive serials...all with ejectors.. I bought this in California..If it had been a 12..I would have passed. In any case..it's a bit scarce, and I didn't have a 32" VH..I'm sure that a safety will be available if I go that route..Jerry..

I agree with you on reinstalling the safety. That said, I disagree with the insurance company in regard to someone shooting themselves because the gun didn't have a safety.
If a safety is all that keeps someone from shooting themselves, that person shouldn't have had a gun in the first place.

I probably will have some cosmetics done. I've talked to Mr. Gorman about doing the barrels..and I'll do the wood. Which brings us to a suitable case color artisan...????..I'm on the fence about the safety...I'll probably never run across a consecutive # gun to see if either of those had safeties...

Jerry ,are you planning on ordering a letter , That may tell you about the safety ! That is where I would start if it were me ! A 32" 16 will be a dandy , Nice Find !

It certainly appears that this gun was made with a safety and that the safety was removed from the gun aftermarket. No safety guns from Meriden wouldn't have the word SAFE engraved on the tang and the plug filling the slot would be almost invisible.

Attachment 78359

Sounds like malarkey to me. Few semi-auto pistols have safety’s, old lever guns didn’t have safety’s, revolvers don’t have safety's.

JDG

The letter arrived before the gun ! It has no additional info..Just the specs..It is probably best to have the safety installed..It's a keeper..one of 216..

Look to see if the stock has the cut out where a safety parts would go. If it had no safety the stock wouldnt have a hole for safety parts.
Scott

If it were mine the safety issue would be to replace . The barrels might get a reblue if they look really bad but most likely unless over forty percent of the stock finish is gone I’d leave that alone and I’d not even think about a re case job . But I’m not big on “re” anything .

Never thought of that !. I've had 3 32" guns....GH 16 O frame and a VH 12 ..straight grip. Got talked out of both..I really prefer short barrels..but this one seemed like I should buy it...

I have many pictures. The barrels really do need done. The stock will be decided after I get it home. It has a pad..so a Silvers will be for sure...My last "color only" project took nearly 9 months..so I'm leaning away from that..

The few Parkers I've seen (not many in person) with no safety AND that were ordered that way according to the research letter did not have the filled slot that yours shows (again, my direct observations are few). I've seen several with the slot filled as with yours, and I always assumed that was an after factory production change. With a gun with barrels that long, it would be a good guess that the owner shot competition and did not want a safety (and lots of hunters disliked safeties -- a notable person was Aldo Leopold). I think the comment to check the stock to see if it was cut out to accommodate a safety is the best answer to the question. If it was not original to the gun, I think relative to its collectable value, there should not be much of an issue since you are planning other restorations.

In any event, what a nice find: a 16 with long barrels like that!

Then that will be the deciding factor..If the stock was made for a safety..then I'll replace it..If not..I'll leave it as found..but still do the barrels at least..

That gun did not leave the factory without a safety.

We had a DHE 16 gauge 29” at the shop that was without safety no slot no safe engraving and yes the barrels lettered 29” .

Talked to my 'smith last night. He is going to remove the stock..and has the necessary parts to put the safety back in place..

Jerry attached are some examples of Parkers with no safety for your consideration. The first 2 are a CHE and a DHE both 12 gauge guns with 34" barrels. The research letter on these confirms that "no safety" was requested. The third is a VH 20 gauge with 32" barrels and a research letter that makes no reference to the safety. There is little doubt however that the absence of the safety is Parker work as there is no evidence of tampering/welding where the slot would have been and the engraving placed in that area seems appropriate. You have made the right decision to replace the safety IMO as the gun left the Parker factory with one most assuredly.

I'm sure the three guns you show are Parker Bros. work. However, I am just as sure they have the safety slot plugged and engraved over. I can see the plug in your pictures of the CHE and VH. I saved the photos out and blew them up on PAINT. I have never had a no-safety Parker Bros., Ansley H. Fox, Philadelphia Arms or Remington in my hands that I couldn't see the plug on very close examination. That safety slot must be milled in the frame forgings very early on in their production.

I get your point which is an interesting one. You would think the process of milling the safety slot would simply be omitted vs completed and then filled in. I blew the pics up on paint to 4000 pixels and I can see a line on the VH which could "possibly" be a filled in slot, possibly to my eyes. Concerning the CHE I am just not seeing it. What am I missing ? Did you use some other method on paint possibly that would make it clearer to my eyes ?

Randy. The VH is filled in.

I have observed a couple frames that had no slot. But the cast majority of safety-delete guns have filled-in slots.

Paint has very limited editing options - that's really not its function

and JPGs generally do not have the detail to allow much sharpening or editing -

if you want to try to clean up an image there are free photo editors such as GIMP or PhotoScape X that will allow you to get as much as possible from a JPG - but again - what can be done without the base detail is limited and they take a while to learn

The red arrow is pointing at the right front corner of the slot.

Attachment 78412

Below the tip of the arrow one can see the whole straight front edge of the slot.

On Remingtons they used a different trigger spring and the head of the stock was solid on the no safety guns. I've never seen the inside of a righteous Fox or Parker Bros. no safety gun, so would like to hear from some gunsmiths/stockers on what they have observed on the inside.

Good eye Dave, now I see it clearly.

Thirty years as an "Intelligence Research Specialist, Imagery Analyst".

Hmmm sounds like someone that may very well have been at headquarters in Langley once upon a time :whistle: