24” barrel length
 

Are Parker hammerless guns equipped with original 24” barrels comparable in value to Parkers equipped with 26” or 28” barrels?

Charlie, they're certainly not popular and their use is pretty limited but they are rare so their value, depending on condition and bore, may not suffer... especially if it is 1 of 1 or something unusual like that.





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Dean, If I purchase this 28 ga gun with 24” barrels I would use it almost exclusively for quail hunting. Does that sound reasonable/practical?

Dean is right on the money.

I would say they would be good for quail hunting or woodcock hunting.

Charlie what grade is the gun?

AHE

Oh my! That would be a 1 of 1 most likely Charlie. There was a 24" A Upgrade in a 28 gauge out there for sale not to long ago as I recall. Are we speaking of an upgrade or original ?

It sure does Charlie - and as Mills says, depending on the chokes, it would be a nice woodcock gun too.... and grouse in the early season too.

Hmm... an AHE 28... be still my heart!





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I don’t have all the details on this gun yet but it is equipped with Acme steel barrels. It is my understanding that only AH and BH guns have Acme barrels so at this point I have no reason to believe it is an upgrade. Do I assume correctly that an “upgrade” would be, for example, a VH that has been engraved at a later date in a manner typical of a higher grade gun? Were all “upgrades” done after Parker ceased production or were there instances when a lower grade gun was sent back to Parker for engraving etc to upgrade it?

Do you have the serial number ?

Dean, barrels are choked MOD and FULL

I do not have the serial number yet but I was told it was made in 1918 or 1919

Charlie, you are correct that normally only Grade 4 & 5 guns were fitted with Acme Steel barrels - earlier ones of course were fitted with Damascus or Bernard (Grade 4 almost exclusively) barrels.

If a Parker were upgraded by a prominent gunsmith who was very well versed in how an original graded gun was appointed, he would generally change the rib inscription to reflect the proper barrel steel for the grade of the upgrade.

Generally speaking, the cleaner pallette of the VH would be used for the better upgrades and there may possibly have been a miniscule number of Parkers sent back for 'upgrades' but only in wood, checkering, butt treatment, or engraving special touches or embellishments but rarely (if ever) would a Parker have been sent back for a total upgrade... To the best of my knowledge....





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Charlie,
I sent you a PM.
Bob Jurewicz

That maybe helpful if the number is in the serialization book, unless you don't care what your buying and just like the gun and price for what it is

I would say that the 24" barrel length is a little more common in 28g. guns that it is in larger gauges.

In looking at the tables in TPS this can be said about 28g guns with 24" barrels.

In the "Short Barreled Shotguns" table in the back of the book which lists specific serial number for barrel 24" and under. There are 119 numbers listed in various gauges. 30 of them are 28g. So, basically 25% of them. And 28 of those 30 guns are 24" length. Keep in mind that this is not necessarily a complete list of all short barreled guns.

In the grades tables, where 24" lengths are listed for hammerless guns (fluid steel), there were 38 VH grades, 4 DH grades and 3 CH grades that were 28g. guns with 24" barrels.

In the VH table the 24" 28g guns outnumber any other gauge in the 24" length row.

Keep in mind again that those grade tables are extrapolated some to account for missing records.

Brian, the asking price for this gun suggests it is an upgrade however the barrels are marked Acme Steel” which were only supplied for AH and BH grades. According to Dean, if the gun was originally a VH and was upgraded to a AH by engraving, the engraver would have had to remove the “Vulcan Steel” inscription on the barrel and changed the inscription to “Acme Steel”. Would seeing what is stamped on the water table assist in determining the original grade or could those stampings also be altered?

The barrel flats too Charlie.





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Acme steel did make it onto some CH grade guns as well.

The tables in TPS do not list any 24" 28g. guns above C grade.

Lots of C’s had Acme steel barrels. The earliest fluid steel barrel C’s were Titanic, then after Acme barrels began to be used at Parker, they were used early on. In fact Acme steel is the most common C grade fluid steel.

20 ga. :

Titanic Steel made the Parker scene in about 1897 and there are a small number of CH (Grade 4) guns with Titanic Steel barrels. After Acme Steel made the scene the choice was narrowed to a choice of Damascus Steel, Bernard Steel (which was nearing its end) and Acme Steel. Those were the standard barrel steels for the Grade 4 Parker.

The barrel steel choices for the Grade 5 (BH) guns of that era were most likely "DD" Damascus and Acme Steel. There are also a very few Grade 5 Parkers with Titanic Steel barrels made before Acme Steel barrels were available.





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I own one of the few listed and lettered D grade 24’s, mine is 20ga. I like it and use it a lot on ruffed grouse and quail. Many people believe that a 24 is too short for them, but not for me.

If you are looking at a costly gun I sure would want to make sure the barrels are not just chopped off , or account for it in cost. It would be very difficult to find another set of 28 ga
barrels.

Do your homework. https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/par...-gauge-upgrade

The answer is in the web address.

Very interesting engraving. Those sure aren't Runge's dogs but the scroll looks like his style.....




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I have the only known 24" twenty-eight gauge Damascus barreled Parker of any grade.

It is a DHE made in 1908 by special order.






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I felt that this was the subject gun that was posted about.

I inspected it closely at the southern. It is very nicely done in nearly all respects. The only thing about it that was a red flag to me was the forend tip... It is from a LEFEVER.

A made up A 28 ga gun for about 20 grand, and a genuine C 28ga 24 “ for 72 grand. That tells you where collectors are on it but some folks just want a nice looking gun that they can take on a quail hunt and put in the gun rack.

And that’s OK. Not many can afford $72k for such a Parker while some can aspire to own a Parker that looks about as nice and handles about as nice and shoots just as nice for a whole lot less.
I don’t own any Parkers worth $72k but I’m pretty proud of the ones I do own, and they shoot really well.






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And 24" is the best there is for especially woodcock and also ruffies in hvy cover in my book. My 24" PHE16 is the best woodcock gun I've ever handled.

It only has one bead around the bolsters

Which would be correct for a 28g.

what I was alluding to was the correctness of that detail, where so many upgrades, and 'replicas' have two and three beads. Pachmayr is one I recall.

ok. I got it.

Yes, this upgrade is done VERY well. When I was looking at it I could not see any of the other obvious telltale signs of upgrades and I did not notice the forend tip until I had it in my hands for several minutes.

I do not specifically recall details like water table grade stampings though.

Even the engraving style looked 100% correct for the period.

The forend tip was a bit of a head scratcher. Why not use the correct tip? If it was not for that, it would pass for original.

I like this gun a lot. Were it not for the short barrels which I do not care for it is one that I could proudly own and would prefer over a 70K gun. I would however opt for a really nice original VH over the upgrade. Given the fine quality of the work and the sellers historical data I am surprised the price is not higher. Of course the gun could have mechanical and or barrel issues that I am unaware of. Nice gun IMO, good luck with it Charlie if you go for it.

To all of you who gave me valuable input. I decided to pass on this purchase. Thanks to all of you. Regards, Charlie

I have put together a vh-28 with 24” bbls. It shoots really nice.

To me it's a toss up. 72 grand? Should I get a brand new loaded pick-up or a Parker? It's one of those tough choices in life....

I'm pretty sure I looked at this gun at the Southern. It was incredibly well balanced for such short barrels. I thought long and hard about it. Upgrade or not, it would be a pleasure to carry, shoot...and look at.

Ron,
I would ask myself what will be the resale value of each be in say five years.;)