10 gauge loads for a Damascus Barrel?
 

I have a Wc Scott that I shoot with BP. Im tired of cleaning it over and over. So im looking for smokeless loads. I wrote down a few low pressure ones but id need abit of guidance. I already downloaded the PDF that everyone talks about with the 10 gauge loads.
I wrote down a few using Clays and 700x. All the ones for red dot dont have any pressures listed.

I have a powder supplier not to far from me that stocks Imr powder, so I could get IMR red, clays, 700x easily.

Can Anyone tell me loads they use for damascus barrels? :)
https://i.imgur.com/h98dHlM.jpg

using Peter's big spread sheet of 10 gauge loads you should be good with any of low pressure loads in there

and a couple of us have posted our tested loads - I think they are also in the sheet now

but a search will find them - such as
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...hlight=red+dot
or non tox http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22303


PS- did you check the chambers - some early British 10s are 2 5/8 not the American 2 7/8 -

They seem to be 2 7/8. I cut Winchester 3 1/2 shells and they work great so far. Would the red dot loads work for me? They are at 6000+ psi. What would people recommend in Damascus barrels. Iheard under 7000 is safe. Over and its at your own risk.

Thanks

the 19 grains of red dot and1 1/8 ounce load is good and 21 grains of green dot and 1 1/8 lead shot works great in my damascus guns....these loads are in pete lesters load sheet on the 10 ga.i shoot my 10 ga s and 8 gas alot withheavy charges of smokeless powder never had a problem with the barrels....mr bell had to exceed over 30000 lbs of pressure before he blowed upa damascus set of barrels and the fluid steel barrels blowed up at 34000..mostly people load low pressure shells in their damascus barrels and fluid steel barrels is to protect the wood on the gun and the shooters shoulder....charlie

I guess Il get a pound of IMR red and see how it goes.

I have an W&C Scott hammerless circa 1881 10 gauge that's been in our family for 75 years .

I initially used a Ross Seyfried load of 30 grains SR7625 SP-10 wad with a 1/8" 16 gauge card in the bottom of the shot cup , 1 1/4 ounces of shot and a 10 gauge overshot card just to keep my folded crimp flat . I've used that powder charge with bird shot , bismuth shot , buckshot and slugs (although no slugs in the Scott) and they all did pretty well .

I also used a slight variation of the ALLIANT Red Dot 18.6 grains of Red Dot , SP-10 wad , three 1/8" 16 cards 1 1/8 ounce shot and a over shot card . That load works great for skeet , trap , sporting and quail/dove .

I think IMR is now owned by Hodgdons. If you stop and think for a moment, a 10ga chamber is larger than a 12ga, so any moderate 12ga load will be even less in a 10ga - more surface for the powder to expand against. I believe all 10ga shells are straight walled and I treat them all the same for reloading data. The 7625 Craig is using is no longer made or PB and 4756 - all gone. I use the 16ga 1/2" cushion wads in a SP-10 to take up space - they're easy to cut the correct height for a proper load height for a good crimp. One 1/2 wad is cheaper than two or three .125 over powder wads. Of course a navy bean would also work. I shoot 1oz loads in my 10s for clay birds. I don't remember right now, but it was 21.5 or 23.5grs of GD and 1oz of shot. I'm thinking it was the 23.5 load - no recoil and great at breaking birds. Good luck.

I also need loads for my 12 gauge 1887 winchester. But those are alot more popular then 10 gauge. I was wondering about shot weight and isnt 1 ounce shot light for a 10? What is the difference between 1oz 10 gauge and 12 gauge? Does it come out faster due to more powder?

Yes 1oz is light for a 10ga and in the 12ga I use a 3/4oz load. It doesn't take much to break a clay pigeon. With the International games around a 7/8oz load is all that's allowed. You never did say what you were reloading for - hunting or clays. Sherman Bell wrote some articles in DGJ a number of years ago where he was given 20 SxS Damascus wall hangers and was told to try and blow them up. None would let go with Remington proof loads - 18,500psi. He then took a Parker and got up to around 30,000psi before it blew. Will all Damascus guns take this abuse. I wouldn't think so, but it just shows Damascus guns aren't as dangerous like some would have you believe, He also did test with 2 3/4" shells in a gun with 2 1/2" chambers. If I remember correctly the pressure went up about 500psi. Each of us have to decide what's safe and what isn't for barrels and pressures. I myself usually keep my reloads at or under 8000psi and many guys like the 7500psi figure. One other thing to consider is barrel wall thickness. Most of us shoot American made guns - Parkers - and they were usually made with thicker barrels than our English cousins. You might want .100 to .120 around the breech end and at least .030 at the muzzles. The English accept somewhere around .020 - .025 at the muzzle. It passes proof house, but it is a bit thin. You can go here to get reloading data or call and request one of their free manuals. I find them much more useful than going online.
www.hodgdon.com or www.alliantpowder.com

I would like to reload for general purpose. It happens that il walk around with a shotgun and hunt something if need be. I also shoot clays and targets. I do some of everything. Thats why I was wondering about shot weight. Id just want a moderate all purpose load.

I don't like recoil - the reason for 3/4 and 1oz loads. I went from 1 1/8oz 12ga loads to 1oz, 7/8, and then 3/4oz loads and never saw a difference in my scores. International skeet and trap only allow a load close to 7/8 oz [ 24 gm ] - about 11 of #8 shot lighter. Both of those games are much harder than ours here in the USA. FITASC use to allow 1 1/4 oz of shot and went to 1 oz. Everyone complained but their scores went higher. The less shot, the shorter the shot column, the less set back, so more of the shot at the bottom stays round. This means more of the shot stays in the pattern. 1 oz of shot in a 12ga is only .690 high, in a 10ga it's .610 high. Both of those are way better than the great square load a lot of people promote. Claybuster wads use to [ and still may ] have a sheet of reloading data in their 3/4 oz bags of wads. Here's two, one for RD and one for CD. The wad is CB0175-12, 3/4oz of shot, Clay Dot, Red Dot [ or Promo is the same as RD only cheaper ] at 15.2 grs gives 1200fps at 5500 to 5900ps. At these pressures it wouldn't really matter what primer you used.
You won't find light 10ga loads. Go on here to Pete Lesters chart or just chose a mid 12ga load, say something around 8500 psi. In a 10ga it'll drop more than enough to where you're safe. Mine is 23.5grs of Green dot in any 10ga shell, any primer, 1oz of shot, and a Rem SP-10 plastic wad with enough 16ga fiber cushion wads in it first to make the shot column high enough for a good crimp. I've also used the same for 1 1/16 or 1 1/8oz of shot. You can cut the cushion wad any thickness necessary. BPI has paper and plastic wads. RST claims to use the Remington wad for a little more blow by for less pressures. And, you don't need all the junk BPI wants to sell you for cut shells. The regular Mec start crimp works just fine. No skiving is necessary. If you want to roll crimp I feel Precision Reloading has the best one. Have fun - Paul

In your case, I would use only loads published in the reloading manuals, offered free by the powder companies. Yes, the bigger the hole, the lower the pressure, assuming identical loads. Your question about "does it come out faster because of more powder" depends on how much powder you are talking about and the rate of ignition, which can be slower in a bigger hole. It is better to consider specific loads rather than making generalizations.

Just to clarify, Paul's ".100 to .120 around the breech end" would refer to the end of chamber wall thickness.
I just measured the at the very end of the breech WT of a 10g Ithaca at .230", a 12g 00 Smith at .210", and a 16g 0 Regular frame Smith at .200".

I saw the chart and downloaded it. I was only worrying about pressure. People go wild when I mention a Damascus barrel.

Kevin: before using the gun with any load, the wall thickness needs to be measured from breech to muzzle. Please share the numbers with us after having it measured.

I already shot it. Works good. There is a bit of rust in the barrels but nothing crazy. I dont even know how to measure the chamber thickness? I can put calippers at the end of the muzzle to measure the thickness but no idea how to get the chamber thickness.

You can get close by using a scale to measure the thickness of the wall where the shell goes in. Measuring the thickness of the walls from breech to muzzles is the ideal thing to do, but sorry to say, I've never done that and have owned over 25 or 30 different Damascus barreled guns. Four or five friends at the club have also owned many Damascus guns and no one has ever measured barrel thickness. I don't measure chamber length either. As for "published data " for the 10ga, Hodgdons has just put out one 10ga low pressure load and then there's Petes' data. That's about it. Low pressure loads to me are more about common sense than anything else. If it'll work in a 12, it'll work in a 10, with lower pressure. I'm not a collage grad, but I think it has to do with the volume the pressure has to work against. The bigger the volume, the less pressure. JMHO

Paul, I'm not picking on you but I don't think that's good advice for somebody just getting into old shotguns, especially classic old side-by-sides.
There are enough of them out there that have been honed nearly to death and the chambers lengthened to dangerous wall thicknesses that are literally "time bombs" and shouldn't be shot with ANY shell. Although I have done the same as you, I would never advocate an attitude of 'just go ahead and shoot it - it will probably be fine' - rather I would give the strong advice to have the wall thickness measured by somebody who knows how to do it...... especially in this case where the poster says "There is a bit of rust in the barrels but nothing crazy." where we have no idea of his definition of "nothing crazy".





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Manson wall thickness gauge, $160.99, retail, don't know the dealer price. I paid about $100.00 for mine maybe ten years ago. That $160.99 item will probably sell for a bit more at the estate sale. Mine has already appreciated 61%.

Dean, I get picked on so much over in the shotgun room at the club a little here won't make any difference. Maybe I should have put a disclaimer in my post. You're right, it would be nice to measure the wall thickness. I'm use to looking at American made SxSs, which are a bit thicker than our English cousins. Over there the guns were usually gone through at the end of hunting season, and that could mean a honing of the barrels. Back here the gun was usually just oiled up and put in the closet, no honing. I'm use to looking at muzzles with .040 to .060 wall thickness. With that in mind I assume, right or wrong, the rest of the barrels are still factory specs. I believe over there .020 at the muzzle and they'll still proof load and test it. I wouldn't shoot a gun with .020 at the muzzle with your fingers. No offense taken by your post - I think we're on the same page.

There isnt alot of rust in the barrels. Ive shot alot worst. I just got a slug mold today for a 12 gauge and IMR red.

We use to tell Cowboys when they ask if the old double they just acquired was safe to shoot " when looking down the barrels can you see holes in the side ? No. Then it's good to shoot ". We would of course check it out. Kind a.

Im making some loads with IMR red. I put 17.5 grains with 7/8 oz for my 12 gauge and 18.5 with 1 oz for the 10 gauge. Il start with these and work up if I need to.