2 7/8" 10 ga.
 

If all goes well, tomorrow I will pick up a "new to me" 10 ga. hammer gun (sorry, not a Parker). "Fox-Admin" suggested that I check this website for valuable information. Are any of you familiar with Sherman Bell's article on 2 7/8" 10 ga. shells for damascus barrels? I'm trying to find it, but I don't know which issue of DGJ it's in. By the way... I really enjoyed the youtube video of trimming and reloading the shells. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I just checked my DHJ Index & Reader Vols 1 & 2 and Sheeman Bell is listed with the various volumes and issues but they aren’t listed with titles or content. Kind of a dead end there.





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Sherman Bell “Finding Out For Myself Part 3” Volume 11, Issue 3, p. 19
Sherman Bell “Finding Out For Myself Part 4” Volume 12, Issue 1, p. 23

The information in these is a bit dated because some of the powders used are discontinued but it is still good info.

The 2019 Hodgdon annual manual has an article by Ross Seyfried about BP shot shells that also has LP smokeless loads using currently available powders.

If you are interested in 10 gauge black powder loads, Track of the Wolf has instructions and supplies. They sell a useful booklet and expensive (like $7+ each) 2 7/8" 10 gauge brass shells.

Track of the Wolf sells Rocky Mountain shells with the Parker name on them. I see their business is up for sale, so if you want some better get your order in. I think most guys will agree with me that if you see a moderate 12ga load it will be safe in a 10ga. The chambers are bigger in diameter so there's more area for the pressure to exert on. A lot of the guys like 19grs of RD and a 1 1/8oz load. I like that with 1oz for clay birds or 23grs of GD.

What business is for sale, Rocky Mountain Shells or Track of the Wolf.

Rocky Mountain. Then again it could be just a internet rumor.

Rocky Mountain Cartridge's website says the business is for sale. That's been the case for over 6 months, but they say they are still in business and taking orders. A box of ten 10-gauge 2 7/8" shells is $105. But they say there is a 3 to 4 month waiting period to complete orders.

I don't think the brass shells sold by Track of the Wolf are made by RMC. They have them in stock for $7.49 each, I bought some a few months ago.

I was told at one point that is is actually a PGCA member who makes the brass shells and markets them through Track of the Wolf.

Matt, that could be correct. I would almost think if a PGCA member made them he would speak up here and tell us about them. JMHO

Jeff,
Do you reload? I see a lot of threads in here on the 10 gauge and a lot of guys reload. I will be calling you soon about the pheasant farm too. Haven't been able to shoot your (my new) gun yet because of weather.

Do you possibly have an 1 1/4 and/or 1 1/2 load using BD or W572 ? I already use the 1 1/8 RD load and I’ll add the GD load as well . I now have plenty SR7625 to last me with all the 10 gauge 1 1/4 , buck and slug loads I wanna shoot . But I have 10 pounds BD and 8 pounds 572 I oughtta use for something .

Check the current Hodgdon reloading site. They have recently listed three low pressure 1 1/4 ounce 2 7/8" 10ga loads. One uses 572 and another uses IMR Blue. It is my understanding that IMR Blue can be substituted for Alliant Blue Dot and vice versa but I would double check that info first.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

I heard the same about BD vs Blue , RD vs Red , GD vs Green and something they’ve come out with that’s supposed to be the same as Unique .

They showed 27.5 grains of W572 with 1 1/4 ounce and a 1/4" 16 gauge card in the SP-10 shotcup . And 35.2 of Blue with the same thing . I may try and load a few of each tomorrow or next week .

I do not reload at this time, but depending on how often I shoot a 10 ga. I may have learn how to do it. We'll see...... :)

By no means am I trying to tell you what to do , but I'd suggest going to a friends house that reloads shotgun shells and learn loading plain old 12 or 20 gauge shells before deciding to start with the 10 gauge stuff . While loading the 10 isn't difficult it helps to start with something a bit easier and working your way up .

Now with that being said and you decide to go to a friends make sure they let you learn on a single stage press as that's about the only thing you can get for a 10 gauge that's reasonably priced . A progressive 10 gauge is going to cost about $1100 by the time it gets to you . Ponsness Warren makes the only progressive 10 gauge I know of and base cost is $1050 I believe now and if you want them to adapt it for 2 7/8" that's another $35 plus whatever it costs to get it to you .

Thanks for the advice. 30 years ago I reloaded 12 ga. shells because I was shooting in a trap league. I have a MEC jr that I used for those shells. However, I have not been reloading since then. The cost savings was marginal, and with a family, time gets precious so it's been easier to just buy ammo. However, if I find that I enjoy shooting this 10 ga., I may want to re-enter the world of reloading. This stuff's a little pricey. We'll see, but fortunately there are a lot of really nice, and knowledgeable, people on this web site to keep me on the right (and safe) path. At the moment the gun is at the "smith's" for a little tweaking to one hammer. :)

I've shot the 10 gauge for years . I originally started loading for it with a Ponsness Warren 375C 30+ years ago , however they were all 3 1/2" (I was shooting a Remington SP-10 a lot at that time) . Now I've got a 600 JR and a Sizemaster for the 10 gauge both setup for 2 7/8" . If I keep at it I expect eventually I'll get a Ponsness Warren LS-1000 for the 10 gauge set at 2 7/8" just for dove/skeet/trap loads (I've been saying this for about 5 years now). And I'll keep the Sizemaster for buckshot , slugs and bismuth .

Craig:

Not what you asked about, but I have a nice 1 3/8 oz. Blue Dot load:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...light=Blue+dot

-Victor

In my Allaint hand book in a Rem shell 1 5/8oz 43.5grs BD gives 1285fps/8500psi. I'd go down a bit, maybe 40grs with a 1 1/4oz load. 1 1/4oz with 29grs of GD gives 1265fps/8800psi. Go down to maybe 26grs for a little less velocity and pressure. Good luck. Paul

After being told that Hodgdon had new 2 7/8” data on their webpage I called them Friday and asked them to send a dozen of the free data books to the shop . The fellow I spoke with said they were planning on doing some more 10 gauge 2 7/8” stuff in the relatively near future . Only time will tell .

One day next week if I can remember I'll try and call Alliant and ask them about 10 gauge 2 7/8" in their manual and inform them of Hodgdons forward thinking if they haven't . Either way I'll get them to send me a few new manuals as well if they're willing and I certainly expect they will be .

Maybe if I can lay off buying any new shotguns for awhile I'll go ahead and take the plunge !

https://www.reloaders.com/collection.../l-s-1000-10ga


Only problem with that's going to be me wanting to upgrade all the MEC 9000's to PW 800's as well .

OOPS!

them new loaders look really nice....for someone who volume shoots it will be great....charlie

The basic PW design’s been around fifty plus years . I learned to load on these as well as being the first loaders I owned which is probably why I still look at MEC 9000’s as second rate (even though I own five MEC 9000’s at the moment).

I'm just the opposite. Give me a Mec any day over any other reloader. I had one of 800s once and had trouble with the primers seating. What a pain to correct the problem when a primer didn't seat compared to a Mec. It was probably me causing the problem but I hated what it took to pull a shell out and fix it. I couldn't sell it quick enough. Must be a reason Mec out sells all other reloaders. Anyways, it will be nice if the powder companies do a little more with the short 10.

Back thirty years ago I had a rather formidable setup !

I have an old oak conference table I use as a loading bench and I had 4 PW 800's bolted down on it . But I shot A LOT of skeet and trap then . Also had a PW 375 for the 10 and 16 .

When I stopped competing I sold all the PW's and thought my shotgun loading days were over . But when my grandfather passed and his W&C Scott 10 came into my possession I wanted to shoot it and got a 600 JR 10 gauge and then a bunch of JR's in all gauges followed then a couple 650's a couple Grabbers and five 9000's .

If I had my way and plenty throw away money I'd get PW progressives for 10 , 12 , 16 , 20 , 28 and 410 . PW 375 for 12 gauge 3" , 20 gauge 3" and 10 gauge 3 1/2" .
But I gotta say for the buckshot and slug loads in the 10 , 12 , 16 and 20 I prefer a 600JR or Sizemaster . The MEC single stage is far easier to use for loading buck and slugs over the PW single stage and of course the progressives suck for buck and slugs .

My own personal opinion on the numbers of MEC's being used vs PW's and Spolars is totally price . Back in the 1980's when I bought new 800's they were $500 if you got a good price and a MEC Grabber then was I think about $150-175 . Now a PW is a Grand and a MEC 9000 can be had new for $600 . And if I'm not mistaken Spolars are perhaps 20-30% more cost then a PW .

Wow! I asked if anyone had any thoughts about the 10 ga. 2 7/8 loads and now there are 3 pages of comments. You guys really know your stuff. I shot my 10 ga. with some RST 1 1/8 loads and successfully broke the first 4 clays on the skeet range. Unfortunately, at that point the extractors failed and I had to bring it to a gunsmith for a minor repair. When I got it back, I took it to a nearby pheasant farm loaded with RST 1 1/4 oz loads. I'm very happy to say that I killed 3 out of 6 my first time out with that gun. I'm not accustomed to hunting with such heavy barrels, so I was probably a little slow on the "swing" a few times, but when you hit them with a 10 ga., they go down. :)

Probably the best loader in the market for tens is the PW 375. I bought my 375 when I was about 15 years old, still have it. I load everything else with antique PW 800Bs. My 12 gauge 800B has well over 100,000 clicks on the counter. Still going strong.

I especially like shooting the old 10 doubles that are choked tight at trap doubles from perhaps the 22 yard line , skeet doubles from behind stations 3 , 4 and 5 , and last but not least Jap Trap . The really tight guns can be a hinderance at Jap Trap on stations 1 and 7 sometimes but one learns to compensate .

I never heard of Jap trap. Sounds like " Scrap " where you shoot trap from the skeet stations. But then you East Coast guys have your own lingo. Craig, glad you did so well with your 10. Guys today don't realize you can shoot them with shorter shells and less payload. I use 1oz for clay birds and it breaks anything just great. I know the shot column is very short so the shot string should also be short. One of mine is chokes Mod/Mod and it's more than enough.

Jeff,
Congratulations on your new gun, I can't wait to hunt with the gun I got from you. The guys in this forum have been so helpful to me too in here. Congratulations again, hope we can get together for a hunt sometime.

We actually have Jap Wobble Trap and I gotta admit I love it ! When you’re on station 3 4 or 5 and that thing throws a flat straight away it gets your attention PDQ . Best I ever did at wobble Jap with a 10 was 21 or 21/25 best I ever did with my VH 12 2 frame that tight and tighter yet was 23/25 . But I do have home field advantage . Jap Scrap it’s all good :rotf:

So now if you'd explain exactly how it's shot and from where with what kind of machine. We have a trap/skeet field combination like a lot of clubs. The machine can throw wobble with the turn of a switch. I'm always looking for something different to shoot and this sounds pretty good to try. I've also heard mention of using all three machines for a game, but I'm not sure how that one goes.

To be honest I don’t know the brand of our trap or skeet machines now. Seems to me they’re Star something , I do think I heard the guy that kinda takes care of them that new ones can no longer be purchased . The wobble machine was purchased as a regular ATA trap machine and the guys from Shyda’s later added a motor for wobble and as you said all you need to do is flip a switch to go from regular to wobble . But as you assume it’s shot from the skeet stations . Initially we played where you shot until you hit starting at station 1 . Later I told the folks that don’t shoot much to shoot three times and move to the next station that way they stayed in the game longer and sped up the movement . I hate waiting ten minutes before I shoot again in this game . When I do it we shoot the skeet stations with the trap wobble only I don’t include the skeet traps . We have three dual fields on field three our trap machine stays set up for trap doubles , that might be intresting as Jap trap :whistle:

I'm sorry the way I ask the question. I didn't care what the manufacture of the machine was - only if it was in fact a wobble machine. I've heard of not moving until you hit a bird, but your way seems a bit more practical. It would be a problem waiting real long to shoot again. We have the same set up on one field and I thinki the guys would like a league doing as you suggested. Maybe just let them shoot around the field and keep score of hits and misses.

Well to be honest when we do it if I’m involved I shoot until I break the bird , but I have those that haven’t shot a lot to do three and move . I’ve got a friend at our club that belongs to another club as well over in the valley and when they do it they require two hits before moving not sure if they limit the shots st each station . The new traps or shall we say anything since Western Flyer traps were king are considered new by me . I loved the old Western traps be it skeet or of the Trap variety . I understand the change but I still like the old traps more . First time I ever shot somewhere that wasn’t using Western traps was at the Old Bingham and Parks club outside Winston Salem . They told me to be prepared because you couldn’t “hear” them release , I thought this is a crock of BS ! WRONG I had to move my hold points out a skoosh on 2-3-4-5 and 6 . Think there were 50-55 Shooters there of which forty were AA-AAA and by that time I fell in that group . Anyway out of them all I tied for LAST in the HOA with a 390 out of 400 , but atleast the guy I tied was George Lehr an Skeet All American at the time LOL’s . Think Mayes went 398 or 99 , Bender and two others guys got them all . That was my first in person exposure to the “hot dogs” so to speak .

All this talk of skeet trap wobble etc ! I think Wednesday morning I’m heading to the club and shoot with the “Old Guys” . There’s a group of retired guys in our club that shoot Wednesday mornings .