Rebarreled Parkers
 

I have been negotiating with an acquaintance on a lever rifle for a few days when he mentioned a Parker he had that he did not want. Assuming it was a 12 Gauge V Grade I was surprised when he told me it had "birds" engraved on it. A few pics later I was able to surmise it had been blued at some point and I believe the stock (English) has been replaced. It has a single selective trigger.

My question is, the barrel says Made In Belgium under the for-end and has "Re-barreled by" (can't make out the rest in the pic) on the right side. The barrel has Belgian proofs.

How does that relate to value? I assume between the re-blue and non Parker barrels it falls pretty low? Was this common practice?

Thanks

Ryan

The rebarrel, on top of everything else you mentioned that is not right about the gun should be telling you to pay as little as possible.

I cannot see a gun like you describe being worth much more than $500.

Ryan, we see them from time to time and yes, it likely has minimum value.

Can you post a few pictures or at least tell us the serial number and we can tell you how it left the factory.





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Oh, I agree, I already told the owner I was out on that particular gun.

I was just curious about the Belgian barrels and their relation to value, that kind of took me by surprise.

I will see what I can do, I can tell you that it is not listed in the "book". I received my copy from my children for x-mas thanks to the suggestions here.

It was most likely originally made with Damascus barrels. There has been a Damascus scare perpetrated by the gunmakers and ammo companies to scare folks into buying a new gun with fluid pressed steel barrels. Some folks chose to simply have them rebarreled.

A lot of us shoot our Damascus barreled guns with impunity... after expert examination for flaws and adequate barrel wall thickness. This of course should be the common practice with ANY old gun.





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How can one assume so quickly a re-barreled gun has little to no value? As you indicated, Dean, the OP hasn't provided much information apart from 'thinking' it may be re-stocked. What was reblued? At the very least, he indicates it has a single selective trigger, so one could justifiably assume it was also an ejector gun. There are 'Belgian barrels', and then there are Francotte, or Louis Christofe' barrels. Would you walk right by a grade 5 or 6, with high grade barrels made by someone other than Parker. I think I'd want to know a lot more before I so casually assumed it was worth "$500".

As I indicated before.... the serial number will probably tell the story. Heck, we've seen some stunning early AH guns with birds (:whistle:) on them... :bowdown:





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The receiver was blued and not cased, the restock is a loose assumption but the butt does not match the for-end and the wood is much lighter, it has a pad and is void of the insignia? plate (not sure what to call that). The serial number is in the 170K's. From internet pics it looks to be a GH?

I will inquire about sharing the pics/serial number, I am very adamant about respecting friends/acquaintances and I don't know how this person would feel if I shared this information.

Edgar, If you want the Incorrectly finished and restocked V grade 12g with aftermarket barrels for more than that, I am sure the OP may give you the owners number so that you can buy it from him.

True I did not see photos of the gun or know more than the OP described, but what he described is all I needed to know to make my assessment of the situation based on the information provided to me. As we all know, opinions on value ARE subjective and can vary. But... take into consideration that today there are a LOT of unmolested and all original VH grade, shooter quality, guns that are not selling for more than $1,000. So...

Again... MY opinion. so it does not matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

"Assuming it was a 12 Gauge V Grade I was surprised when he told me it had "birds" engraved on it. A few pics later I was able to surmise it had been blued at some point and I believe the stock (English) has been replaced. It has a single selective trigger. "

The OP told us of his assumptions, both prior to/and after seeing (pics) of the gun. It is impossible to tell the original grade of the gun from the info provided, it is possible to surmise, that if the gun was indeed a V grade, that it has been significantly customized...which seems unlikely, for if it were a V grade, it is unlikely that the original fluid barrels should need replacing, or that a single trigger was installed, or that it would have any "birds" engraved on it...I would love the contact information of the seller!

Well, as we all know, opinions are like (*), everyone has one, and your post is as close to total BS as any I've seen. Where do you come to the conclusion that the gun is a V Grade? My post was certainly prior to the OP stating he thought it was a G grade.
What the OP described in his initial post said nothing of grade, except "bird" and SST. You make your assumptions based on as little info as that and it tells me your assumptions have little, if any value.

Edgar,

I will admit that this whole mess was a perfect example of my jumping to conclusions which I can do at times.

I will amend my comments simply to...

The fact that the bluing of the whole gun, restocking of the gun and replacement of the original barrels will have a significant impact on the value of the gun vs if it was original and unaltered.

Wow, didn't mean to stir up a storm here, I was simply questioning whether or not the aftermarket barrels made a difference on something besides a V grade gun. I guess I thought by mentioning the "birds" it would be understood that it was not simply a V Grade gun. I guess I posed the question wrong.

Undoubtedly.
This is similar in nature to the recent thread about the gun altered by Col. Askins.
I have a 20ga. DHE that belonged to Otis Odom, and was altered by him. The butt stock was originally a PG stock, which he altered to straight. He straightened out the trigger guard, and did a beautiful job of inletting and checkering around the trigger guard tang. I think it's done to the highest quality of the many I have seen similarly modified, but recognize it's value is diminished greatly (fortunately, the guy who sold it to me felt the same way)

And then that brings up the eternal debate of weather provenance outweighs condition. Depends on which side of the deal you are on.

From a pure $$$ (investment) standpoint, condition will always (with rare exceptions) outweigh provenance. From a collectible viewpoint, it depends on what you are collecting. Original condition may not be a priority for you and play only a small part of what you would be willing to pay for a particular "well owned" gun. I think you have to view it from the stand point of: Are you investing? Are you collecting? or Perhaps you are doing both?

The Parker Bros. DHE 10-gauge was not altered by Major Askins. Major Askins was editor of the Shotguns portion of the Arms & Ammunition section of Outdoor Life until mid-1941. That particular article was actually by J.A. MacKenzie of Toronto, Canada.

https://i.imgur.com/ga7oM2m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xR7nT1h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DULut3g.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/p3fkEjl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oT7SJIK.jpg

At least the fore end tip wasn’t blued.

And it's a GHE

Its definitely worth more than $500. Otis Odem did some very nice work and at one time I had a 28ga that was upgraded to a BHE by him. I currently have a 28ga with a second set of barrels from James Purdey, does this devalue the gun? Not in mu opinion.

The main problem with a frame that has been blued is that it was probably polished diminishing the engraving and the possibility that the barrels might have been hot blued. I bought a GH 20 bore years ago that had the frame blued. The barrels were rust blued and the engraving was not diminished. Whoever did it had the common sense to use a light touch on the frame. I removed the blue from the frame, a very easy thing to do, and have used the gun for years. Blued frame guns are not hopeless. It depends on how it was done.

The barrels look to be of very good quality.

One of my First Parkers was a PH that was rebarreled by Vickers. I was able to buy it cheap, it shot great There was still some meat on the bone to make a little when it came time to move it along.

The only thing that would bother me about the gun as a great field gun is the out of time roll pin screw. Fix that, enjoy it, and if the blue on the receiver wore enough so that did not look good, then remove the bluing. I'd be happy to hunt with it as it is. No crying if you dinged it.

The original poster, Ryan, asked reasonable and intelligent questions about the commonality of re-barreling a Parker, and the effect that and bluing has on value. Those seem to be pretty good questions for a Parker collectors website. The reactions of some seem to be over the top. As well, there seems to be a trend to attack the poster for any gun pictured or described as anything other than original or refinished to what is felt to be a "correct" standard. Let's face it, few have pockets deep enough to always purchase the highest condition or highest grade guns. Moreover, people buy firearms for different reasons. For me, it is usually clays or hunting. I rarely collect for investment, though I understand those who do, or those who simply collect for pride of ownership. Posting reasonable questions about a firearm shouldn't stir up a storm. Let's remember, we are all here for our own reasons but with a common love of double shotguns.

Very good points Joe - Thanks for bringing this thread back on track.





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So, I know these are not the greatest pictures but from the coloration I would assume the darker for end is probably the original piece of wood. Not the butt?

I'm with you on this one Mr. Graziano. Well stated.

Ryan, IMHO yes. Fore end looks original not the stock. Have fun shooting it.

Right, the cheeks are not original Parker.





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