A1 Repro or Runge Parker Upgrade?
 

This gun is a Runge upgrade of an original Parker https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101132072. It is priced less than some Repro A1 Specials. What do you think is a better value today?

Thanks,
Ken

No!
Look at 101124754 to compare.
Evaluation requires pics of water table, barrel flats and under rib between forend lug and barrel flats.
Bob Jurewicz

I should have clarified. I was referring to what was needed to evaluate the quality of your referenced Upgrade.
Bob Jurewicz

2072 is the handsomest Runge upgrade I’ve ever seen. Striking!





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Bob,

Another nice looking upgrade. I agree some more information is needed on the barrel lug, etc. However, are these upgrades more of a value than a Parker A1 special?

Thanks,
Ken

Runge Engraved A1 Upgrade
 

Difficult question, Ken, to give a fair answer. Like the old saying, “beauty and (value in this case) is in the eyes of the beholder and collector. Parker Reproduction Collectors would probably say there is more value in the A1 Reproduction whereas Runge and DelGrego followers/collectors would prefer the subject A1 upgrade. This particular gun on the surface appears to be very well done, and like Dean, is one of the better embellished ones I’ve seen to date. In my opinion both guns have value and would enhance anyone’s collection. 😊

While it may be neither ‘fish, nor fowl’ it’s a pretty gun. I’d certainly find a spot for a flat ribbed 28” 20 with that piece of wood.

Since I started buying guns, the key to most value assessments has been on originality. This point was driven home more so with American made guns than British doubles. The Parker repro A1 specials allowed people to embellish them using a number of artisans. The original Parker upgraded guns are not "original", but certainly done very well and at a comparable price of a repro. There are pros/cons to each type of gun.

I guess what I'm trying to understand with this group, is how much a Repro's value compares to a nicely done upgrade on an original Parker?

I understand these are just opinions with no definitive answer.

Once again thanks,
Ken

If the wood to metal fit on this A1 upgrade is the best they could do then I would find someone else to do the wood. I would think the cost of an upgrade like this would be significant and the owner would expect something comparable to the originals. The wood fit and checkering on this gun does not come close to an original high grade Parker or the Repro A1's in my opinion.

Patrick

PS, That flat rib is way cool!

Now, to directly answer the question you asked.
I own both a 20 GA Repro A1S and a very well done Runge/DelGrego 20 GA A1S Skeet Gun.
I value the Upgrade significantly higher:
1. It is a "real" Parker with the Parker magic within
2. It was "crafted" by the same artisans who would have produced the original guns.
3. It is an exact replica of the Original had it been made in factory to A1S
4. It is made to the same standard of quality as the Originals.
Bob Jurewicz

The repro's are nice guns no doubt about that but the upgrade is still an original Parker. I have an upgraded AAHE 28 two barrel set that if it were original there would be no way I could afford it. If Chucks gun was a straight grip it would be mine. At the end of the day the upgrade is a real Parker made in America not a reproduction made in Japan.

I can just picture Senior and Bob Runge discussing the construction of this gun in the old shop in the basement of the Del Grego home. Senior and Runge both worked for Remington and Parker and are the same hands that built the originals. Patrick's comments about the wood are probably legitimate, but what is, is, and nothing can be done about it. I own a Runge SAA and a few other Del Grego refinished guns and value them like my originals. There is serious history in the Del Grego shop and the guns produced there.

In my opinion, the quality of the engraving on many of these later Runge upgrades is pretty flat-out poor. A lot of uneven and scrunched-together scroll work. The flow of the engraving is pretty much non-existent.

Hello Ken , Just my 2 Cents worth but I am also an owner of one of the DelGrego ,Runge Upgrades and Signed by Both ,it is a BHE 410 which started life as a VHE Grade Parker ! Years ago when I first started buying Parker Guns I sought after the 28Gauge and then the 410 ,I Loved the High Grade Guns and this gun came up for sale ,while looking through The Parker Story ,one will see the BH Grade 410 Guns are very minimal at best ! So with this said my opinion was ans is ,if you want to purchase a gun such as mine we can no longer order it and the likelihood of finding one is nil and if I could find one I could never afford it ! But this gun left the Parker Factory ,was purchased by one of our Finest Collectors and had the actual Folks which would have overseen this gun being built and the Actual Engraver which would have done it had it been an original High Grade Parker , these guns are as close to having a High Grade Small Bore as you can get with very few exceptions as there were so few actually built and sold , I don't think these guns and Repros are comparable !If you would like to see mine instead of me cluttering this Thread with Photos ,I have an album on my Home Page , all are welcome to take a look ! Again ,just my 2 Cents !

Russ,

Thanks for the response. Your gun looks great!

Ken

Russ - For those of us who are somewhat digitally challenged, how can I locate your album?

On his post, click on "Brush Buster" and select "view public profile" in the dropdown. Then, on the left side of his profile see the section for "albums" and click on the BHE

It all depends upon what your definition of original is.


Most would agree that the definition of original is that the product is and remains as it left the factory.


Most would agree that to a true collector, originality trumps everything.


In the case of the subject Parker Bros. gun that was altered from the way it left the factory by upgrading it to an A-1 Special vs. a Parker Reproduction A-1 Special, that is in as it left the factory condition, it is then obvious that only one of these guns is original. Therefore, by being original, the Parker Reproduction A-1 Special will be the greater value -- today, tomorrow and for the long haul.

:duck:

Got it. Works for me if I click on his picture, but not if I click on Brush Buster. Nice gun
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'll always vote for an original, whether a gun, knife or car

I disagree as the reproduction is just that, a copy of the original not the original. There nice guns but if I were to spend $15K on either a Repro A1 or the original upgraded gun in question my money is with the upgrade.

fwiw - if I was spending the kind of dough it seems to take to acquire a PR A1..I'd be looking pretty hard at an upgrade if it had "all the right stuff" + the right feel/heft in hand with that 'certain' aesthetic.

That said, I'd just assume start out w/a Parker Reproduction if I intended to have a custom pattern engraved, over a vh worthy of upgrade.

Nice that we have choices :)

I did a n upgrade/custom Parker using a VH 20 as a platform. Gunner's gun is as nice as they co me in my opinion but I confess to being prejudice:whistle: I will never recoup the investment in dollars but will never spend the memories either. When I'm gone the gun will be passed to another friend of both Parkers and German Shorthairs.

But, if you do that to a Parker, didn't you just reduce the population of Original Parkers?

I thought that was a bad thing :whistle:

Rich - you have about the nicest owner inspired Parker, in Gunner's gun, that I've seen..and I've only seen pictures of it. It's a beautiful gun.

Scott first thanks for the compliment, if you come to either the Southern or Hausmans let me know and I'll make sure to bring it and you can take it out for a round.

It's still an original Parker no different IMHO to taking a VH and making it a higher grade gun just a different path.

Scot, don't fret about "Gunner's Gun" reducing the population of original Parkers. It used to belong to my wife, who tried to get me to take it, but she found an eager buyer in Rich. The sweet gun is in a better place and in better condition today. However, the gun is full of history, originally sold by a country store about six miles from my house, then owned by a local family until it came to Linda at a local estate auction.

And that's just the sort of thing that would push me toward a vh, or a p, or whatever, instead of a Reproduction. (if there was sentiment/provenance or even, just a particular feel of a particular pc)

To expand on my earlier comment which may not have been abundantly clear..I would never NOT use an original. Just as a practical matter..a Repro, in some cases, just makes more sense. Even that viewpoint carry's a caveat..it depends on the individual gun, of course.

With respect to Gunner's Gun - like Mr. Anderson, I must profess that I might be a bit biased :whistle: (toward pointy critters)