roomy hull
 

i got the 2 3/4 Cheditte hull to use some reclaimed TM shot- planning to use Craig's recipe he had tested.

And since i have a lot of bismuth to use up and thought i would load some of that as well

i found this load on the Hodgon site - for a 2 3/4 Cheditte hull

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...ictureid=11294

when i loaded it ( powder and shot were weighed to make sure it was right)
i ended up with a tremendous amount of room left in the case

so i went to the 1 3/8 load from the same site

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...ictureid=11295

and still had too much room left to crimp over

this is the left over room with a shot load of 1 3/8 oz (not to mention the bit of powder that got past the wad)

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture...ictureid=11296

how the heck did they test this load - :rotf:

i tried cheerios - they crushed - so now to find a filler that will hold up

Why not try a different plastic wad? Like the Claybuster 12 for 1 oz. or 7/8 oz. loads. It won't change pressure that much and ought to fill out the hull's capacity. Just a thought.

i'll try a few things -

but the point is - unless all three scales are wrong- as well as the calibration weights - who would list this as a tested load - the 1 1/4 ounce load would easily fit into a 2 1/2 hull and might still need a little filler in that

try putting a 16 gauge card board wad under the shot...you can play with the wads till you achive filling the wad to the top....charlie....

16 won't fit in the 12 wad - need to see if i have any 20's -

i have used bamboo shavings as fillings before- but have not planed down a rod for a while, i'll have to look behind the bench :corn:

Rick, Chedite makes a variety of base heights in their 16ga. hulls:cuss:, and I suspect they also do in 12ga. hulls

there is a possibility - i have some other branded Cheditte hulls- i'll look- but its going to have to be a thick basewad

Rick, how about a 1/4 felt wad?

Hey Rick,

I have some 0.135" thick card board wads I use in the bottom of my 3/4 ounce CB wads for my 1/2 ounce loads to bring them up higher so they crimp better.

They are 0.625" diameter (20 gauge) and 0.135" thick. I have some 0.070" thick card boards wads too.

I think I'll be seeing you around lunch time on Saturday and can a bunch of them with me.

Bill

First off, a Remington hull is tapered wall hull[ Win also ] where as the Cheddite is a straight walled hull. That's why the powder is leaking by. Many recipes show a wad for a tapered hull used in a straight walled hull, but you see the problem with that clear hull. Even Claybusters shows their Win/Rem wads being used in straight walled hulls and they make a wad for straight walled hulls. Don't ask me why they list them. Any hull except the Rem/Win is straight walled. To the best of my knowledge the 10ga, 16ga, 20ga, 28ga, and 410 are all straight. The only exception is the Win AAHS hulls. They take a special wad. Second, the RP12 wad is meant for 1 1/2oz of lead shot in a tapered wall hull. Go to BPI and ask what wad to use for a bismuth load. It's different than a lead shot wad. Make sure you mention if they don't ask what hull you're using.

Another thought. I'd think you'd want to keep the bimuth shot with in the shot cup so the barrel walls are protected. In your picture it's above the shot cup. You're going to have to find a different powder/wad height to take up the room without jacking the shot above the wad. Maybe Big Friend 10 will chime in on this seeing how he does a lot of waterfowl hunting. Hey Mark, where are ya ?

Paul’s comment reminds me of an embarrassing blooper I had while shooting at Wallingford with Dave Suponski. I had loaded up a bunch of cheap Winchester hulls with AA wads,but the hulls turned out to be straight walled. I took my station, confident I was going to nail it, and after a mere pop, burning powder shot out the front along with wad and shot, which landed about 10 feet in front of me. We made quick work of the grass fire, and while the laugh was on me, I couldn’t help but laugh also.

Four or five airsoft bbs work well for that. Plastic filler beads from the fabric store are lighter and also work well.

i am also trying different loads

but part of the point is that this load just plain does not work as presented - and its a published load - how could they have tested it as is - i wonder if some loads are calculated and never actually loaded

thanks guys for the ideas for modifying it, i may have some of the altered recipes tesdted

I have never had any problems using a RP-10 wad in Cheddite 10ga hull or the fig 8 in a cheddite 12ga hull. Paul why would you be concerned with bismuth making contact with the barrel?

Craig - i am going to try the Remington figure 8 as you have in your TM load

I've never loaded shells for waterfowl so I assumed bismuth could be detrimental for steel barrels. I have a friend who like a lot of us are always trying something different with the reloads. He was using some foreign straight walled hull and Claybuster Win/Rem wads, the 1118-12ga. I told him he could do it, but would loose a little pressure and velocity. I gave him a handful of wads meant for a straight wall hull to try. That was it, for some reason he switched immediately. If I remember, he said he cut one open with the wrong wad and found powder leaking by the wad. If powder can leak by, how much pressure will leak by ? Yes they can be used, but why do it if you can just as easily use the correct wad ? A 3118 or 2118 work in Fed style shells. Go here to check em out http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/federal-style
If you want stack height higher go to a wad that holds less shot. The shot cup isn't changed much, but the cushion height is.

the point of using Bismuth is that it is safe for barrels

Hey Rick,

I'm a little late to this party but I use those foam polish packing peanuts. Break off a piece that looks about right and if it is a little large it will compress. They hardly weigh anything so cannot increase pressures very much. My problem is finding them without going to a stationary store to buy a huge bag of them.

Jack Kuzepski

you just don't buy enough crap off eBay then :rotf:

but yeah they would make a good filler -

but still - this was a published load- and it doesn't work without adding something

BPI uses a computer to figure their loads. Real world sometimes don't get it. The guys over on the reloading forum at shotgunworld.com bad mouth BPI loads quite often.

No offense to Mr. Harm, but I don't know what "bad mouth" amounts to.

However, I do know what "legal liability" is. And any business/company that publishes loads like BPI does is legally liable for their safety, if not their "fill factor." The critical dudes on some website are immune from any such risk.

Of course, many of them are true experts...

Kensal, I believe " bad mouth " pretty much means what it says - they talk badly of BPI loads. I can't remember now, but in the past some data from the Lyman manual has also been shown to be incorrect. They actually show a published load and why it's incorrect and possibly dangerous. The critical dudes are only showing what loads should be avoided. They're doing reloaders like us a service. Sorry if that upsets you.

I'm not upset.

But I personally prefer to get my loading data from verifiable sources.

I have found BPI’s information useful, but only as a guide. I think it would be foolish to implicitly rely on anyone’s data as a starting point. I don’t care how basic or exotic your equipment is, there is no machine which will drop precisely the same charge a ‘chart’ or ‘manual’ states it to deliver. If I use data from anyone, BPI, or the guy next door, I think it’s only good common sense to start out low, and work up to it..
On the topic of case filling, it seems people often loose sight of what patterns well, as opposed to what looks good once the crimp is folded. Sticking some foreign material in to get the column to a proper height for crimping seems like a good idea, only if you have verified the charge looks good on the pattern board..
I have countless bags of wads under my bench that may never get used, but I had to buy them in order to find the one that works in all departments.
Sure would seem like a nice gesture to the loading community, if Precision, BPI and others would sell samples, in smaller quantities.

that would be great if they would-

like you i have bags of 200+ wads that are going to see me out- but i hate to get rid of them because - of course then i would need them. its like fly tying- every time you see a new pattern you find you need some different feather/hackle/floss :)

maybe i will throw a few in sandwich bags, label them and bring them to the few events I attend - folks that want to try them can, if we all bring a few - it might work out

Years ago, Claybuster sent me a small bag (25?) of their then new 16 ga. 1 oz. wads... no charge to try. I just phoned and asked if I could try them. Turns out, they didn't work as well with my load as Downrange wads... but that wasn't Claybuster's fault.

Another point I wanted to make, but, as is more often the case, forgot, is that if you have a charge, wad, and shot load that you like, but comes up low, in most cases there is no harm in trimming the case to a height that gives you the crimp you like. It's not a lot different than trimming a plastic case when you're using an overshot card, and finishing it off with a nice roll crimp.

I wasn't trying to say to get reloading data from internet users, but that sometimes published data is wrong and internet reloading forums bring up this point. Those of us who reload the " short ten " regularly use 16ga filler wads under the shot. It works quite well. I have in the past loaded roll crimped 12ga shells and normally pitch em after they're shot because I find trying to straighten out the plastic shell is trouble and usually doesn't work all that well. Those who do it more often may have better luck at it than me. It's one reason I don't roll crimp 10ga shells - they cost too much. Unless they've been cut a couple of times and are getting short. Then it's roll crimp for one last reload. My last ones were only 2" long.

Paul, my paper Chedite hulls never look as nice the 2nd time around, but they don't get worse on the third, though I rarely use them 3 times.
I use both new, and once fired hulls for roll crimping, and once fire plastic gets trimmed to 2 1/2" first. I know precisely what you mean about the fired hull, being deformed by the heat, but made a friction taper, pretty much the same as BPI's and it puts them back into shape quickly.

A 16g or 20g fiber wad or "wooly" wad may work to fill up the bottom of the shot cup too. Seat it first then drop your shot. I do that in my 10g reloads. Works like a charm.

I do understand your question though. Why would that load be published if it doesn't fill the hull? Maybe they forgot to add the filler wad to the recipe would be my guess?

mike i bet you hit the nail on the head....charlie