Elmer Keith and Jack O'Conner stories
 

These are pretty good. Both these guys were hunting heroes when I was growing up. I have read many of their books and articles over the years.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/Gerrys_Ca...?showtopic=105

I just visited with David Trevallion, a couple of days ago, who had done "stock work" on a couple of Keith's double rifles.





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I've read both of their works extensively. Opposite ends of the spectrum for sure. Jack favored the 270 and Elmer thought a 375 H&H would make a good varmint round.

If you haven't read " Hell I Was There" well let's say it's a hell of a ride. You will not be disappointed.

If I remeber correctly, that was the book where he described taking a Muley at over 200 yds, with an open sighted model 29 S&W.

Yep these guys were the ultimate in point/counterpoint article writing in the outdoor magazines of the day.

Rich I noticed your Hemingway quote in signature. Have you ever read Hunting with Hemingway. It was a book written by Hemingway's niece as story's retold by her dad Leicester. Good read with lots of bravado and almost outlandish recklessness.

https://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Hemin.../dp/1565113845

All those Hemingway's off'd themselves. Rough.

No I haven't and thanks for the link. I need some new reading material.

It is a good read and some of the stories are almost outlandish to believe and full of bravado but I think its well written. It does suck you in reading about it all if your a Hemingway fan. Supposedly stories are taken from a recording of Leicester detailing accounts not previously documented from their exploits. I think Leicester was much younger than Ernest as I recall. The king cobra story was... don't know how to describe it. Just read it. I think best part is how Leicester describes Hemingway's writing style and its hard to disagree with the point.

BTW just reread a chapter last night that I forget about regarding a tiger hunt that is chilling. Such incredible stories that probably has a profound impact on Ernest. Hard to believe he would not of written about it, but is compelling that he didn't since he felt maybe so much guilt. What I find very interesting is that this book came out probably 10 to 12 years ago and it mentions the destruction by his son of the Scott 12 bore SXS that Ernest used to administer the "family exit". Here is link referencing another book's excerpt that talks about the Guns of Hemingway and reportedly shows a piece of the Scott Hemingway sidelock showing that a torch had been taken to it. It also appears to be the left sidelock. https://gardenandgun.com/slideshow/e...gways-guns/10/

Besides mandatory reading of some his books I thought it cool that on my parents gentlemen farm as a kid we had some Hemingway cats (multi-toed). A good friend of my parents that also owned our local newspaper was a huge Hemingway fan. He almost fell out his chair when my Mom made a passing comment about all the multi-toed kitties we had. He had to have one. He picked a real rare one since it had multi toes on all four feet. The scariest part was it had two long toes that were fused at dew claw area on both front feet. That cat learned to use those extra toes almost like an opposable thumb. Man that cat could climb almost as fast as it could run. I always thought that would make an incredible horror story like Lions of Tsavo if there was ever a large cat like a tiger, lion or cougar that had those type toes. I had never seen a grown man fawn over a cat that much. He acted the same as someone that had been given the pick of the litter from a famous bird dog or maybe the first foal sired by Secretariat (First Secretary).

For character, of the three---Keith, O'Connor and Hemingway---J'OC would be most welcome in our home. Hemingway is a great writer but would be almost insufferable to me as company. I don't question Keith's prowess, having seen many lucky shots over 80 years. He's entertaining as a story-teller---"Aw, c'mon, Elmer!" Having said that, the photo looking over my shoulder as I write this is Karsh's print No. 2 of Hemingway, the turtle-neck portrait.

I had the opportunity to visit Havana a couple of yeas ag, and tour Papa’s Cuban estate. It has literally been left a “time capsule”
First pic, his desk, which was really a flat showcase, as he wrote standing up at a manual typwriter faced into an unadorned corner, so thahe was not distracted as he composed.

Second pic is the walls of his bathroom where he recorded his weight every day,on the walls,
with occaisional comment.

Third is a partial of his library, which was huge!

Fourth, Pilar

Cool pics Mark. I remember reading the story years ago about finding Pilar and restoring it and some of his exploits in that boat. Chasing submarines. Lucky he never got close enough to one.

There are a lot of famous people would want to meet and then there are some to just admire from a far.

Opposite ends of the spectrum for sure. I read them both as a boy but I was an O'Connor person through and through. My love of the .270 started as a boy from reading his books. He used it on elk and other large game with success. My early loading recepies came from his books and articles. He only used the 130 grain bullet. I loaded some with 150 grain handloads and found them deficient from an accuracy perspective. Keith said anyone who hunted elk or moose with a .270 was a fool. I disagree. I have killed many moose with the .270 with 130 grain handloads and they don't go far after being hit. I have read that the acrimony between O'Connor and Keith was real.

That's an interesting take on the 130 grain .270

My Ruger No. 1 is far more accurate with the 150 grain Remington Round Nose than any 130 grain I have shot at 100 yard targets. It will print 3/4"groups all day long with the Remington 150 gr. and even boattail 130's by several makers are lucky to print 5" groups.

It just goes to shot that just like some shotguns are particular about shot size and various loads - rifles too have their idiosyncracies.






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Each rifle barrel is a world unto it's own for sure. My .270 is a custom pre-64 model 70 with a Douglas barrel. It doesn't like the 150 grain bullets for some reason. As far as I know from his writings, Jack O'Connor always loaded and used the 130 grain bullet. He never mentioned the 150 grain loadings and didn't list it in his recipes for the .270. I love the .270 and it also makes a great long range coyote gun.

Me and “Papa”at the Floridita bar in Havana, his main hangout!

I don't even wanna ask what she's doing......:corn:





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One of my 270's is a custom stocked pre64 M70 FWT. It likes the 130gre NBT and I'm using Jacks load which if I remember is 58gr of H (or IMR) 4831. As Tom said each rifle is it's own being. For me thats what makes them so much fun.

270 in a 130 grain bullet, whether it a regular or WSM, would hate to wager on the difference performance wise. I know the muzzle velocity on WSM is about 200 fps higher and shoots maybe a quarter inch flatter if zero at 200 yards, but just not enough difference at most reasonable shots that might be within 300 yards. Dang lethal rounds.

Cost and availability of ammunition is a factor though. 270 wins in that regard.