Question for Parker Historians
 

I may have overlooked it but i could not find the answer in The Parker Story to the following question. When Parker re-barreled one of their guns, did they serial number the barrels to the same serial numbers elsewhere on the gun?

Also, does anyone know what 44 stamped on the barrel flats means?

from my experience, yes they put the serial number of the gun on the new barrels.
I would not say that was the practice 100% of the time.

4 4 is probably the unstruck barrel weight of a 12 gauge gun. 4 pounds, 4 ounces.

A set of replacement barrels would be marked and numbered in the exact same manner as any barrel set put on a new gun.

Only discrepancy might be if the barrel steel types don't line up with what original steel type. Several guns that vame from factory with damascus got replaced with Vulcan.

I have 2 rebarreled by Parker and by Remington. The first was rebarreled by Parker in 1911 and letters to that fact. The 2nd. was rebarreled Remington in 1948 and has the repair codes to that effect. The Remington rebarrel was originally produced as a 12 ga with Damascus barrels and now has steel barrels that are 16 ga now on a #1 framed gun.The Remington barrel gun has the chokes marked o the flats; the gauge, grade, and shell length on the frame lug. Serial numbers match the frame numbers.

Craig, but the important thing about the Remington rebarrel is that those extra markings (choke, grade, chambers and gauge) is how Remington normally marked Parker barrels before production ended.

Brian point is made about the additions but you left out the deletions which are no makers name, address, and barrel steel on the Ilion rebarrels, just matting.

The unstruck weight markings are on the barrel flats and are 4 with a 6 elevated to the right and above the 4. I am still trying to understand the marking '44'. Wondering if that could be an inspectors or some type of date code?

That is an interesting comment. In the spirit of just conversation, why do you suppose those barrels were changed out to Vulcan. Probably a myriad of reasons. Guns are tools that were knocked and banged around and used I am guessing and using Vulcan was just the most economical repair at the time in the evolving faster, better, less expensive industrial process management. Or, was that a conscientious decision to make a change to use modern powder.

I am probably guessing D. All the above. Unless you may know something.

There came a time, generally agreed it was at the outset of The Great War, that foreign sourced barrels, Damascus included, immediately became unavailable. So, unless Parker Bros. Had some Damascus barrels in house, fluid pressed steel sourced in America, Vulcan being the least expensive, would have been the usual choice. Choice in this case would have been the customer’s in most cases.





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And the 44 is on the left barrel flat where the unstruck barrel weight is always on the right barrel flat.





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It is all what the customer ordered as the replacement. The barrels were half the price of the gun. Lower grade barrels were cheaper than higher grade barrels.


Allen,

Perhapse photos of this “44” you mention will help some try to identify it.???

I’ve seen it and I’m sure it is just another of those stamps we will never know the significance of.





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As I understand it, when you got a set of replacement barrels, you had the option of paying to get a matching type or a cheaper barrel type. You see it also with barrels that were added from the factory later. Sometimes they match barrel ttpe sometimes they don't.

The set of 32-inch Vulcan Steel 20-gauge barrels, fitted to my 1889 vintage GH-Grade 12-gauge 2-frame gun, have a number 153 stamped on the left barrel flat. Have not discovered what that means. The Vulcan Steel barrels have the CT., U.S.A. address, but don't have the Parker Bros. Overload Proved stamp.

My barrels don't have the overload proof stamping but they do have Walter Kings mark.

Dean, you are correct. The 44 mark is on the left flat and the unstruck barrel weight mark of 4 6 (with the 6 in an elevated position) on the right flat.

Allan, the 44 could represent a material change since Vulcan steel isn't recognized by the SAE, could represent a process change, an inspector stamp, or a sampling/testing mark. When problems arise in manufacturing, you solve the problem first then adjust the process.It also can represent an employee number who is new to soldiering or brazing the barrels together

The barrels are Titanic steel and marked accordingly. My gut sense is that the 44 is an indiidual's code mark

Thanks. I think Dean and Brian have alluded something similar to your reply as well. It is never just one thing probably that would make someone make a change from a duplication to replacement. Sometimes price at the end of the day does matter.

My only other thought and not certain if any merit to it is that maybe some asked for new barrels based on new generation of barrels for modern powder use. Maybe its just me when I hear the word "cheaper" it has a sense of derogatory tone like it is something of less quality as opposed to just being less expensive. I get it may have less grade because it does not have scrollwork or inlay and hence less pricey.

I don't know maybe I was thinking someone asking for Vulcan barrels might have been folks that were early adopters of the change. But as dean alluded to some of the change was forced. I think I do recall a thought at the time that damascus was tried and proven and some were slow to adapt to new fangled fluid steel.

I guess it is somewhat the same as having barrels that are fixed choked as opposed to getting a gun with screw in chokes.

Some of them were. However, your grade of barrel as Brian mentioned was half the vost of the gun. Getting a Vulcan steel barrel was cheaper than a Damascus barrel or a fine damascus, or a bernard, or in fluid steel terms a parker special steel or titanic barrel etc but more expensive than Trojan steel which is sometimes seen as a replacement barrel.

At a certain point many did choose to exchange damascus for fluid steel. Some paid to get the appropriate steel others did not.

However, as gun writers of the time Askins etc, wrote many were reluctant to trade in for or trust the new fangled fluid steel barrels.

Thank you all for your responses and constructive discussion.

Allen,

Good stuff. I am a greenhorn to collecting Parker's. There are people on here that have forgotten more than I will probably ever know about em but it is fun and interesting to learn about em. My favorite saying is "If your not green, your not growing". I know one thing the next Parker I pick up I will be looking for that 44.

Thank you Todd. You are correct. There are some truly well informed members of the PGCA that you will find most helpful. There is some chaff here too and you will learn over time how to sift through everything that comes over the transom (it's an ex Navy term). But there is a tremendous amount of helpful info here in the main. Good luck on your Parker journey. Know that we have all been where you may be today.

I too have had or do have a
PARKER that has the 44 in a strange
Place on the flats, I will begin to
Look for it

Pat, that is interesting. What is the production year of the gun with those 44 marks

Dean. I guess the mark 44 will remain a mystery. Thank you all again for contributing to this discussion

I am going to check the gun, they are
In several locations

Does anyone know, or have a guess on, the manufacturing cost of the various barrel sets?

John, the manufacturing cost of barrels couldn't have been too much, because PB sold complete guns for as little as $19.00, some minus discount. However, I guess we can't assume that there was profit in that price.

New guns at that kind of price was pretty much a 'loss leader' which hopefully would give the name more exposure.





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