Turkey Shells for 12 Ga VHE
 

Having got my hands on a sweet 12 ga VHE with 30” full/full is like some input on shells for turkey. 20 years ago I killed ducks with the gun using Kent 2 3/4 Tungston loads for older guns. I think I shot 1 1/8 oz loads.

Tell me the difference between the RST shells and normal Winchester high brass having the same payload. I’m eager to kill a turkey with the gun as it would be an amazing experience and photo! Thanks for the help.

This is just me, but if it is a #2 frame on the plus side of 7 1/2 pounds i shoot just regular Remington Express 1 1/4 ounce lead loads. In a full choke it will do anything you need out to forty yards with 6s, 5s, or 4s. I use 6s right, 4s left. I've got a new to me VHE 12 and that is what I plan to use this spring.

Same with me but I use 1 1/8 oz. of #6 in both barrels. Head/neck shots and pattern density will put turkeys in the freezer.






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these fellas are giving you good advice anddifferant opinions on shot size me i like 5 s in the right barrel and no 2 s in the left... charlie

I don't think you can go wrong with 5 or 6 shot, but I would pattern the gun's barrels with loads you choose at distances you feel comfortable shooting. Some loads and shot sizes and patterns can vary in performance from one shell manufacturer to another and even in different guns. Most of the time your okay 30 yards and in on anything, 30 plus on a SXS and things can get wonky with center of pattern. Some will disagree, but sometimes in open ground at ground level it can be tough to gauge that distance. Took shots on birds that I thought confidently was at 30 yards and it ended up being at just under 40. There could be holes in the pattern depending on shot and shell.

Have never taken a turkey with a sxs but premise is the same even with a single barrel guns with sights, patterning gun is just wise and ethical to make sure your harvest is right and you have confidence in performance of gun and shot.

I had that same gun on a 2 Frame and it weighted almost 8 lbs. I shot RST 1 1/4 oz number 6's out of it. I since sold the gun to a Maine Duck hunter and shoot Foxes, and shoot the same RST load. Out to 35 yards they are stone dead.

https://i.imgur.com/L3WQzrW.jpg

Nice, great looking pic and showing a great looking gun and a nice gobbler.

RST makes a great 12 ga. 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz. pheasant load that would be great for turkeys. I use #5s for turkeys and they work great. They usually have these available in shot sizes 6, 5 and 4. However, at this time of the year I do not know what their shot size availability is.

That’s the pic I’m looking forward to taking with my Parker!!!

I’m shooting 6’s in it tomorrow. I’ll report back.

Is it safe to assume that old boy was killed somewhere OTHER THEN Loudon County ? :whistle:

FWIW , I've got a 1 frame VHE 12 30" F&F I used Express 2 3/4" 1 1/4 ounce loads in for several years with no problems .

Express loads in a #1 frame? Can't imagine that's fun to shoot! I won't even shoot those in my 1-1/2 frame VH12. I'm sure it would handle them fine but I'm not sure I would.

that all my old ph 10 ga gets is those express loads at turkey the load is 4 3/4-1 5/8 ounce of lead..this old gun has had several 3 inch and 3 1/2 inch 12 ga loads in it useing gauge mates...charlie

That was a few years ago to be honest shall we say when I was younger and uhm not as experienced yeah experienced sounds like a good word .

But truth be told it wasn't bad but then again it was mostly for turkey and crows . So it wasn't like I was shooting a case at a time (that was when a case was a REAL case and held 500 shells).

My 10 gauge loads are 75% 1 1/4 ounce except for a few 1 1/2 ounce for turkey as well as the 730 grain slugs and a couple of my buckshot loads get over the 1 1/2 ounce range . But all are pushed with 30 grains of SR7625 .

When I get home in mid March I'm interested to see how my new to me EH factory 28" that's choked cylinder and "close" as the letter states will pattern my buckshot loads and group my slug loads . Also interested to see how well it'll do with the 1 1/8 ounce Red Dot puss skeet loads :whistle:

the 1 1/4 ounce loads will be fine in any gun that is in good shape...this has been a standard loading for many years...i have shot my share of them...just remember to keep the shot at the turkey 40 steps or less...set decoys up at 25 steps this will give a little help it the distance of the shot...it aint long till we can be after these old birds....my load will be game bore black powder loads in 3 1/4 inch 2 ounce of shot....charlie

Ordered some of the 1 1/4 oz pheasant loads yesterday and only #4 was available. Also ordered some of the Paper Trap @ 1200 FPS with 1 1/8 of #5. Plan on patterning them with a V grade and waiting for opening day. Of course I will be in Sanford when the season opens here in IN so maybe the following weekend.

I have killed many turkeys and never felt the need for heavier than 1 1/4 oz. loads. And those loads are not the typical high brass 3 3/4 dram equiv. loads. I load 3 1/4 dram equiv loads behind 1 1/4 oz's. This is the old pigeon load. I believe RST sells these.

I hunted ducks in Sasketechawan for two weeks every year for about twelve years. I experimented with different loads and settled on the 3 1/4 dram equiv. load. You can get a few lifetimes of experience hunting ducks and geese on their breeding grounds. The numbers of wildfowl around Debden, Sak. is incredible.

Frankly, I found that the 3 1/4 dram equiv. load kills cleaner and surer on the ducks and geese. The reason is that the typical 3 3/4 load produces a long shot string. This doesn't show up on the pattern sheets but certainly shows up when pass shooting and shooting over decoys. Many feel that the difference would be small between the two loads but in practice it really isn't. I can tell the difference. And the 3 1/4 load is nicer on the shoulder and on vintage guns.

Also, trying to stuff more shot than 1 1/4 oz in a twelve bore is an exercise in futility. I have patterned those loads to prove my point to a friend. The twelve bore handles 1 1/4 oz. of shot nicely. Patterns go to hell with heavier loads. The same is true of 1 1/8 of shot in the 16 and 1 oz. in the 20. It is also true with the 28 bore. My 28 patterns beautifully with 3/4 oz loads and terribly with the overstuffed 1 oz. loads.

For heavy loads, I believe it is better to use the amount of shot that a particular bore size handles efficiently. Over-stuffing more than a standard amount of shot in a particular gauge ruins patterns and is not good for vintage guns.

Tom I agree with you regarding pass shooting and several other points. I think so called squaring the load or maybe reducing the load mass sometimes is best possible option to help eliminate shot stringing. I think the brits had figured it out years ago since pass shooting is their predominant style, but they came to same conclusions you did through experience and then simplified it to a term of "squaring the load" (my thought no proof). A fella named Brister here in US tried to figure it out before slow motion cameras became more available and he became the foremost expert talking about shot stringing.

I brought up the same topic several weeks ago it got me to pondering and researching and to some extent came to somewhat same conclusion that others such as you had experienced, but I always want to know a little bit more as to the how and what. Bruce Day as well as many others are incredible brain trusts with their shotgunning and loads knowledge.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...t=square+loads

To each their own when it comes to shooting a shotgun at a somewhat stationary target like a turkey though. Shot stringing is not a real issue there and I can think this is the only time where pattern boards are real significant to not only determine point of aim but to see density of patterns. I have a 12 gauge that can shoot 3.5 inch shells that use for turkey hunting and it also has sights. Using a 3.5 shell and loaded with 5 shot and a turkey choke it patterns very well. Same load with 6 and 4s sized shot in same setup patterns lousy at distance. Probably several factors at play but more or less shot sometimes is not better, its finding the sync between load, gun setup and shooter comfort.

BTW there is a fella playing with reloading using tungsten for turkey loads that are light loads and some of the loads they have setup have reported incredible ballistics and patterns out to long distances using about the same amount of shot and powder you described.

Fun and interesting stuff. BTW Jerry that was playing with the tungsten loads and using 9 shot just posted some interesting update and followup.

Rst 5’s

Morris has done a heck of a job with RST. I don't shoot RST
because I reload all my shells, but he gave me a few boxes, one of which was 28 bore shells with #10's. He found a great niche market and satisfied a real need. His #5 shot in the old pigeon load is perfect for ducks and pheasants. If I didn't reload, I would be shooting his shells at game.

I know you are a fan of small shot on grouse and have some great success employing it in certain situations, terrain dependent and out to limited distances.

I have 28 gauge sxs that I love to shoot and have taken many lodge quail shooting #9's at relatively close distances, probably all within 25 yards. However still not really a fan of it. Remember when first tried gun and took it to shoot some old clay targets on a cold day. All I had was #9 shot and could not break a target. When we would pick them up out of the pasture we were shooting the targets were riddled with hits.

Shooting other targets out same box with a 20 gauge and using #8 shot. Would powder the targets. Number 8's is my favorite load for a 20 gauge and 28 gauge. I think it has proper pellet count and pellet oomph for small game out to about 35 or 40 yards. Have knocked down some doves at 50+ yards in a full choke with a 16 gauge.

My personal choice is 8's on any small game east of the Mississippi, I think its the best compromise.

I think that #$8 is the shot you should use. You have confidence in it and that means a lot. Not sure what was happening with those clay birds. I use 7 1/2 or 8 on quail because 9's put too many pellets in the bird. I like 5's for early season pheasants for the same reason and it is the perfect size shot late in the season as well.

We all have our preferences based on individual experience. But I admit I am a bit passionate about #9's for grouse because I have taken so many birds with it and never had any problems.

I hardly ever lost a bird. It just didn't happen. But I do remember two that are burned into my memory. Both birds, years apart, were hit on a sharp flushing rise out of cover only my dog could get through. Both birds flew almost straight up after hit, flying very slowly and gaining altitude while drifting with the wind. They reached an altitude that was astounding to me. All of a sudden, both birds died and dropped like a rock back into the thick cover. I carefully marked them down and got the dog to the spot. But he never found either one. I don't know why this happened but I'm thinking only a pellet hit each bird in the head and something screwy happened.

Tom i have had the same thing occur twice both were hit in the head and towered going slower and slower until wings still beating they came back to ground. Both hit by 1 pellet in the top of the skull. Have looked for a bird a long time when i was without a dog to no avail until my son said look in that alder about 8 feet up. Dog never would have got him but may have marked it.

I think I recall Dean saying something about cold clay targets not breaking in one of his experiences, which is pretty rare for where I live. I think the targets I was shooting were stored in a barn that was dry but obviously humidity got to them and moisture content was up in the targets. It was also cold and windy that day and froze night before so maybe the dang targets were frozen. They were tougher than a porcelain pot and none of them would powder but would break if you hit it hard enough. My only point is that demonstrated to me 8's were a good compromise for pellet count and carrying power.

Believe it or not I have killed a good many pheasants actually shooting 9s in a 28 gauge, but nothing more than 10 to 15 yards, which clearly is NOT typical pheasant hunting. I don't knowingly hunt pheasant with that small of shot. Generally prefer 6's. But there was this one time and yes in close range 9's can be effective and actually did not tear birds up to badly.

A preserve that I hunted for quail and chukars is next to a place that also runs continental pheasant shoots, but I only brought and hunted with 9's since only thinking quail hunt and that is only size shot I had in arsenal. Seems a couple of days before the nearby property had a big week of continental pheasant hunts for some corporate crowds toward end of season and bunch of them pheasant got away. Turns out them boys could not shoot for shit and all the ones that got away, and the way the wind blew the survivors, they all seemed to assemble in a thick covert. The guides were even confused for a minute but quickly deciphered it. At first we hit the edge of a bean field next to a plot with some overgrowth sagebrush, briars, and mixed in 8 to 12 foot volunteer pine trees and scrub oak sandwiched between another soybean field on other side. Dogs go on point but did not lock up and we were thinking covey of quail was running so we walked into the edge. Nope not quail, instead about a dozen pheasant were huddled up and jumped so we just shot em and I actually doubled. Guides said before we started that they get a few stray pheasants and said just shoot em since they were free birds and predators would get em anyway.They were just considered bonus birds. They did not realize at first how many birds were in there.

We quit quail hunting and waded into that field after the few birds that we jumped. Turns out there must of been a hundred or more of them in this small 5 acre patch that we jumped. It was such thick cover they would hold tight and burrow into the thorns and sagebrush and hold for the dogs, it was almost like shooting woodcock because of trees and the soggy soil. The cover was so tight and luckily pheasant when they jump is like slow motion woodcock until they reach altitude the 9 shot put a whuppin on them that day if you hit em before they flatten out. We did not even have a shot after 10 to 15 yards due to the cover. I would say alot of my shots were no more than about 7 to 8 yards. At that distance the wad was smacking some of the birds.

We thought once the birds got up they would sail off across that big soybean field but they did'nt. Dang birds had probably been chased enough by some predators they did not want to leave that plot and would cut back in on far side and some would even circle around behind us.

I go back to that preserve every once and a while and the guide that I hunted with is still there and we chuckle like kids every time we talk about that "one time". Seems that is the only time that has happened. Come to find out they hunted that plot and another for two days straight afterwards and got about a 200 birds more out of it before season ended. Heck I know I shot 30 of them. They still get a few stragglers in there as far as they know and they try and keep dogs out of it because once they get in there it hard to get the dogs out. The volunteer pine has taken that field so that its almost impenetrable and that area is bogie enough they even get a late flight of woodcock through there during quail season and woodcock nest in there. They still know there are pheasants in there but you almost cannot get at em to even shoot em anymore and the foxes, coyotes, bobcats and hawks probably get em now.

I could never figure out why my dog couldn't find those two birds. The only thing I can think of is they drifted quite a distance and I had to follow them and mark them down the best I could. Birds generally thrash a bit spreading enough scent making them easy to find. But those two birds were dead in the air and dropped quite a distance to hit the ground. There was probably very little scent for the dog to pick up.