It's evolution. Back in the day the big name shooters who represented not only manufacturers but ammo companies as well all shot SXS's. Remember that's how Arthur DuBray made his living, selling Parker's to competitive shooters as well as the general public.
In 1948 my Grandfather won the Class C championship at the Detroit Gun Club by breaking 200 straight from 16 yards. I have the trophy. According to my Mom his favorite trap gun was a Parker.

I will be the first to admit I don't shoot my small frame Parkers as well as I do a Browning Superposed. In part because I used to be addicted to trap and shot a Broadway for years.
I am planning to shoot a few clays this year with my Parkers and see if I can't improve.

I choose to hunt birds exclusively with Parkers, it just adds to the fun, my game bag doesn't always need to be heavy. Today it's much more about watching the dog work and see him get hot. If I knock one down for him once in awhile he's happy. If I miss them all he still gets in the truck and goes home with me.

Maybe it's evolution out with the old in with the new sort of thing. I don't buy into the single sighting plane mumbo jumbo. Back in the day when the shooting sports both live birds and clay targets were both not only competitive but spectator events the SXS was the gun used and used well by top shooters across the country. Arthur DuBray made his living selling Parkers to shooters who were not only being endorsed by gun company but by ammo companies as well.

I doubt you will see a Beretta on a Grouse Moore across the pond.

In 1948 my Grandfather won the class C championship at the Detroit Gun Club by breaking 200 straight from 16 yards. I have the trophy he won. According to my Mom his favorite trap gun was a Parker.

Rise & Fall of American SxS's
 

An Outdoor Life article on The Rise and Fall of the American Side-by-Side Shotgun, The highs and lows of a classic icon

https://www.outdoorlife.com/rise-and...tlua00sfOpq.03

There are a few nuggets of wisdom in this piece. If you know how to read into them.

No. 1:

"More and more, it appears that the side-by-side shotgun, both American and European, is fated to become a niche item—the Morgan sportscar of the shooting world."

And No. 2:

"...we can never escape one crucial fact: A fine side-by-side is a thing of beauty."

In plain language, the SxS double gun was revived and thrived because it had cachet and appealed to a segment of society that knew what a Morgan was. They also appreciated beauty. Beauty of design, fine craftsmanship... and style.

As these people and their more sophisticated taste leave the marketplace, the magic of great double guns fades from the public's collective conscious.

To be replaced with movie and video game-inspired black guns. Killing machines without soul or grace. Suitable for the mass murder of wildlife. And nothing more.

The perfect reflection of the times in which we live.

The Morgan - Ah yes, one of the few cars with a wood frame, and I think the early ones were three wheelers

I don't think this lack of interest is confined to SXS. Most young people will pick up a synthetic stocked rifle package for under $500 vs a pre64 M70. The nostalgia and panash of the older guns is lost on out youth I'm afraid.

yes there was a three wheel Morgan, the frames were and are steel - the body supports were ash as were many English cars - up to a Rolls
the MG -up to the T series actually had a partial wood frame plus the supports

but the Morgan is a survivor- the newest ones still exude the same class

on topic - i think the SxS has been a niche for a long time - and likely getting to be smaller - since our fathers (for us old guys) came home from WWII

when it was time for me to get my own gun - we went to the shop and I picked out a 20 ga SxS - a Fox B if i remember correctly- my father asked why i wanted one of those old fashion guns and bought me a 16ga pump gun

as for the new shooters- first there are many fewer of them- and secondly - most of us i would bet grew into doubles, the new shooters go with what they can afford and what is advertised to them

The Morgan assembly line

I've been fortunate to have a son (now 23) who blesses every American side by side I own. He loves the look and chit chat of other shooters at the sporting clays range with their semi-autos, pumps, 30"/32" O/U's when he brings out the hammer Parker or Model 21 with 26" barrels and nary missing a shot. Smokes them all. We've both been blessed with a family heritage and tradition of good guns and even better dogs (Llewellins, of course)...a spirit I believe will be lost in the next 50 years if not sooner and that's sad.

The decline is not limited to guns either. I understand the antique furniture market is way down (like 1/3 down). Old books, which I have collected, are down from historical highs as well. The question is whether it is permanent or just a down trend of a cycle.

John Campbell nailed it in a few short paragraphs.

I believe our classic SXS collecting and shooting niche is in a trough between two swells. Almost everything once appreciated for its classic style and beauty eventually comes back into style, if even briefly and as a new-found fad. Problem is, we old guys may not live long enough to enjoy the resurgence of these things we loved.





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Dean.... I really hope you are right.... for if that is the case then I will worry much less for our younger generation.... praying....

Right - those are the body panel supports

Its probably a very complex answer and I can think of a few things that even the author of article did not mention that are maybe contributing factors, but I think he captured the broader essence of the issue. I also think its just as complex to figure out why upland game numbers are down all across the Eastern U.S. Its not just one thing or even a handful of things that are making a difference, but a lot of different issues.

Ya know even in writing that article, who is the audience that he is trying to reach. It resonates with people that participate in this forum and others but in the long run. I mean the new market does not even probably read Outdoor Life. The medium they communicate is social media and videos.

Put it this way, I heard this several years ago, think of all the video or broadcasts that the big three NBC, CBS, ABC ever put out since the dawn of television in the 50's. I mean thats years and decades ahead of the internet content. Youtube every single month has more content loaded up by people than those 3 networks ever produced in their entire history combined and that happens every single month.

For giggles go and to youtube and do a search for Parker SXS, or LC Smith, or for that matter on any side by side. There is some content but not as much as you think. Heck I even enjoyed watching Larry Potterfield and an English gunsmith taking an English Boxlock apart. Fascinating to us but others could care for naught.

My advice is to get more content and videos of guys using not just Parkers but any and all SXS's. Sticking it in a magazine, well maybe it reaches the younger generations. Maybe there is an S Curve for demand, supply and price that ebbs and flows, but I'll bet the frequency, wave length and peaks are diminishing as time marches on. There just has to be a need and a want and in my opinion that combination alone is most simplistic hurdle. Their is no or limited need for SxS's with so many other options and hence limited want. Actually the probably the biggest competitor to a SXS is the O/U, which is considered easier to shoot and not much of change from the semi-autos that shooters familiar with both can interchange. Gunfit is an issue, etc. etc.

Like I said, its a crazy stew to figure out.

Maybe we should have a 2 shell capacity in pumps and autoloading shotguns for hunting. In my limited experience the third shot is a waste of a shell anyway.

I showed the article and this thread to my 20 year old son who's first gun was a Parker and already understands the qualities that make these guns special. He just smiled and said " that just means I will own a full set of high grades for pennies on dollar". I told him I thought this was unlikely.

I wonder if the author of the article has ever owned, shot, or desired a nice Parker shotgun? My opinion is that vintage SxS shotguns are an acquired taste both from a financial and functional standpoint and there is a price point for every budget and taste. I have no problem with being in this minority.

I think the day after the Winchester Model 12 was introduced the gun writers of the day started writing of the demise of the SxS shotgun and it has continued through today. Yet Parkers keep coming to market and the good ones continue to sell for more money than ever before. If you are buying them purely to make money then I think you may be disappointed at some point. I have found that buying a vintage shotgun is just about the easiest thing in the world and selling one for what I value it at is much harder. Who's problem is that, buyer or seller? This problem is resolved by buying high and selling low and then telling myself not to do that again(never works). Having said all that, I need a BHE 20 really bad. So, if you have one and want to beat the pending crash and sell it for only half price please contact me. :)

Patrick

It has ever and always been a market driven by the gun and ammunition manufacturers. 'Newer is better' - 'Firepower is more important than the well-placed shot' - 'Innovation trumps the tried and true' and in some cases this may be true... like in self-defense or in military situations. If these manufacturers are to stay in business they MUST promote their product in this manner. Manufacturers of the classic SXS guns in today's marketplace KNOW they advertise and sell to a niche market and know the vast majority of today's gun buyers have been 'conditioned' ne brainwashed by the constant beating of that drum and the March of time.





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As Fred said maybe the third shot in upland hunting is a waste. Years ago I had a Browning Double Automatic. It was 12g. and I think they were called a " Twelvette ". I have not seen one in years and don't know how long Browning made them. There was also a 20ga. After that gun I tended to lean to M12 Win. and SxS when I could afford a decent one. I think Browning brought the Double Auto's out in the 50's, but they obviously did not last.

Right - The guys who couldn't hit anything with two shots thought they needed more firepower.... :shock:





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The Springer Spaniel Field Trial manual for gunners says that the gun will be a "fixed breech, 12 gauge, well choked". No need for the third shot

Having a third shot never helped me much back when I shot pump guns.

IMO for most people it all comes down to cost.. Double guns are always going to cost more to make. Their are some really, really nice autos for the price of some really crappy side by sides.

My 1890 CH adjusted for inflation is $4,153.34. These weren’t cheap even back then.

The ethos of the double gun depends greatly on two things;

Cultural/social sophistication and classical sportsmanship.

Without the former, the raison d'être for a double gun doesn't exist. Without the latter, it is doomed.

Sadly, our country is running out of both of these values.

Witness the decline of The Vintagers, etc. And the ads in the latest American Rifleman...

"Right - The guys who couldn't hit anything with two shots thought they needed more firepower.."

Dean nailed one of the main issues with the comment above. Blame the gun not the shooter. It's the same exact issue as with modern fly fishing gear going from older soft action rods that make a fisherman work at learning how to cast to very stiff rods that anyone can cast. I spent much of my youth in the back yard with grandpas 9.5ft cane rod casting a hookless fly into a hula hoop way out in the yard. When was the last time you saw someone do that? For whatever reason, people just don't want to take the effort to learn how to do something like shooting or fly fishing; they just want instant results. Hand any impatient Millennial a nice old soft Shakespeare or cane fly rod with a braided line and you'll see this. I hear that people can't shoot S/S guns because the two barrels are confusing or something. Seriously? Does anyone in this bunch believe that? I sure don't. That issue sure didn't seem to hamper some of the early 20th century shooting champions who ran course after course. I could rarely hit anything with a shotgun until I carefully read Churchills and Bob Bristers books on the issue. I bought into the Churchill method, practiced it carefully and increased my shooting percentage dramatically. I just takes work, a concept that many young shooters don't seem to grasp.

Indian Quote
 

A quote from an old Indian guide:
" One shot.....game!"
"Two shots.....maybe!"
"Three shots..never!"

"I hear that people can't shoot S/S guns because the two barrels are confusing or something."

I've heard this too usually with reference to sight picture and fast target acquisition. Apparently it is easier for some folks to sight along a single barrel compared to SxS. Perhaps a barrel on either side of the bead interferes with target acquisition for side to side moving targets? I don't know. I've heard this from new shooters that have had formal instruction and the advice from the instructor was to avoid a SxS for this reason.

I would venture to say that it is not a matter of them not being able to do it, but more likely the instructor says it is easier to shoot O/U or single-barrel, so they opt for that as an easier and faster way to become proficient. Hopefully there are some that move on to a SxS, perhaps as they get into bird hunting.

I saw a friend of mine miss a rabbit 5 times with a Browning A5. The last three shots were either for show, frustration or impulse. When the bunny came back around I nailed him with a Parker 28. And FWIW his A5 was a 12:eek:

That is how it works. Does not surprise me. Also, not having the third shot, you can always delude yourself that you would have hit the target if you had the third shot.

I dunno. Look at the guns used in National skeet, trap or clays tournaments. You will almost never see a S x S. Those guys must know something

For whatever reason, over and unders and automatics are pretty much the guns used by professional shooters these days.

Can you say "Single Sighting Plane?

That is true, but you don't see many pumps either

One less thing to screw up. Can you say "Short Stroke"?

We may have to get the resident metallurgist Edgar to weigh in, but I think some of the pros have figured out for consistent shooting that sxs have some barrel flex. O/U's I think have it some but its supposedly more manageable.

I have heard about barrel flex before but, I don't know. Here is an article on it, maybe something to it.

https://shotgunreport.com/2016/04/06/barrel-flip/

I don't buy that...





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A quick lesson on hitting a flying target with a SxS.
Rule # 1: See the bird, shoot the bird. If you're seeing the bbls, go back to rule #1

I would not dismiss the value of having a third shot, as a long time waterfowler I can tell you a third shell in the gun can be very handy in the event of a swimming cripple. It can be the difference between retrieving or losing a bird. A third shot can also be used effectively on decoying geese (when the limit allows more than 2 birds) because they can't get away from the decoys that fast. With that said, I prefer old doubles for the same reason most of you do. I was up to Cabela's in Scarborough last week, I don't think they had ten used double guns in their Gun Library.

Pete, what do you deduce from the fact they have fewer than ten doubles? Cabelas not taking them in? They are selling faster than they can replace inventory? People are not trading them in so much anymore?......





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Re: barrel flex - I know barrel flex can be a factor in rifle shooting, especially with the very high performance/muzzle velocity/muzzle energy cartridges... but not with a shotgun that was bored and choked to produce consistent patterns of pellet count in a specific dia. circle at a specific yardage. Barrel flex in a rifle might cause variations of fractions of an inch at 100 yards or some other specific yardage but a variation of fractions of an inch, or even an inch or two in a shotgun won't make a bit of difference at 40 yards.





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