Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?
 

I would like to hunt with a 8 ga just for the fun of it. Of course, they were outlawed long ago. Maybe for good reason then since waterfowl had been devastated by big bore guns, ie 8 ga, punt guns, etc. That is not true today. What is the difference if I shoot 6 ducks with a modern 10 ga or an old 8 ga? If a modern 10 ga is 3 1/2" and an old 8 ga is 3 1/4" can there be that much difference in the amount of shot? I would think a modern 10 ga would do more damage. Wouldn't it shoot further and hit harder? Has anybody ever studied this?

I have read others say it would be unethical to use a 8 ga. How? 6 ducks is 6 ducks, isn't it? Is it unethical just because some government employee has decided so? I think not. I wonder if anybody organization has ever tried to get these rules changed? Wouldn't be easy since you'd have to convince the feds and then state governments.

To me, this is all government nonsense. Why a 10 ga but not a 8ga? Why 6 ducks and not 7? I still haven't figured out how 3 oz of shampoo is safe to fly with but not 5 oz? Am I crazy?:banghead:

Guns larger than 10ga were outlawed by the Lacey Act in 1918. Waterfowl populations were on the decline, guns and ammunition had improved greatly (repeaters, nitro powder, choke, fluid steel etc) from the days of muzzle-loading cylinder bores and there was an attempt to institute and regain "fair chase". Remember not only was bore size restricted repeaters were limited to 3 shots as well by this law.

The 10 gauge 3 1/2" magnum had yet to be invented and in hindsight when it was invented I am surprised the law was not amended to limit shell length. Somewhere earlier in the 2000's the Lacey Act was amended limiting shell length to 3 1/2", this was done after the 12ga 3 1/2" came out and rumors began circulating about a "super magnum 10ga" could be developed that was 4" and longer. Steel shot made longer shells ballistically feasible.

I have never shot an 8ga, but I have shot 10ga's. They are vastly more capable than a 12ga and far more effective even when shooting the same shot weight. The bigger bore makes a difference. I have no doubt a good 8ga would be another leap forward in capability from a 10 and could really reach out and touch them. For that reason alone it will most likely remain banned. I just don't see a conservation minded organization like DU championing the return of guns bigger than 10ga.

I would say that for waterfowl hunting since it is federally regulated you don't have much of a chance to reverse a law that is 92 years old. You might have a chance to change state laws to allow it's use for Turkey hunting but again you will have a big job in front of you to do that.

Good luck.

Thanks, Pete.

What I can't understand is there is a limit and 6 ducks are 6 ducks regardless of what gun you use. Things have changed in 92 years. The antiquity of an error is no excuse for its perpetuity! There where no federal bag limits back in 1918. At the time there was a question as to whether the feds could constitutionally regulate the number of waterfowl taken within a state's borders so it was easier to regulate the gun size. That was the old days when the feds still thought the states actually were sovereign and had the right to there own to regulate themselves. In fact, there was even question whether a state could regulate what someone could kill on his own property. Back then Amercians actually had some freedoms.

I did read an article on 12 ga 3 1/2" vs 10 ga. 3 1/2". It claimed that the 12 ga put 90% of the shot on target that a 10 ga did. The point of the article was that you don't get that much more out of a 10 ga and there is less recoil with the 12 ga. Maybe that's why 10 ga's aren't as popular now that we have 12 ga 3 1/2". I haven't hunted ducks with a modern 10 ga. Don't really want to. 12 ga does just fine but it would be cool to use an old 8 ga blowing black powder all over the place.

Here's the plan: Only allow use of old 8 ga guns made before 1918. Keep the limit at 6 ducks. How could anyone argue that would be a problem?

Ray it's not just the limit of 6 ducks, it is the concept of "fair chase" by limiting the gunners effective range along with the number of shots in the gun. Having just started shooting a 2 7/8" 10 bore this year and learning just how effective it is at long range I would hazard a guess here that a properly configured 8ga could be an effective 90 yard gun.

PS. I don't believe a 12ga 3.5" recoils less than a 10ga 3.5". All the 10ga repeaters are heavy guns, the 12ga super mags in general are not. I also believe anyone who says a 12ga 3.5" will do anything a 10ga 3.5 will do is spoken by a person who is either selling the 12 or never patterned a 10.

I personally see no good reason why an 8 gauge would be outlawed.........just think of all these companie's claiming how they build rifle's that can shoot game at 1000 yrd's ,now sir that is unethical.....just think ,at that distance no matter what calibre choice there gonna be some hang time before impact......the targeted animal could make one step ,or could be stung by a bee or whatever the hell else and the shot could go from the vital's to the gut!!!! just try and close the distance on that poor bugger after a crammy shot.
With today's game law's there is no sensible reason why they(8 gauge gun's ) should be banned.

Pete, you might be right about 12 ga vs 10 ga. I don't hunt waterfoul with a 10 ga tho you may be changing my mind. 12 ga, 10 ga you still need to put the gun on target.

I respect your view, but it has nothing to do with fair chase. When I started turkey hunting years ago you'd be lucky to put 40 pellets in a pie plate at 40 yds. Now I can put 120 pellets at 60 yds due to advances in guns and ammo. Is it unfair? No, those rascals still out fox me! The fairness is in calling them in if you're so inclined. Where I come from you can turkey hunt with a rifle. What is fairer? Calling them in and shooting them with a 60 yard shotgun or sitting in a stand with a 300 yard rifle? They're not in a cage and there is a bag limit.

What's unfair is steel shot! All poor shots like me do is wound ducks! But that's a whole another story. I understand the problem with lead and I have become somewhat politically correct.

The argument that the range with a 8 ga is 90 yards is weak in light of the fact they are hard to hit at 40 yards. How much do you lead them at 90 yds? I probably couldn't even see them at that distance! Surely steel shot, if it could be shot from a 8 ga, would never, ever go 90 yards. I'm not sure lead would be effective at that range but I really have no idea.

It would be a interesting study to see what the real effect would be. My guess is not much in the real world sitting in a blind or up against a tree.

Chris, maybe you and I are starting a movement!

8 gauge
 

I have some Field & Stream,Forest &Stream, Outdoor Life, etc from the 1890 - 1920 time frame. They contain many letters from individuals and sportsmen's organizations proposing the outlawing of individual calibers and a considerable body of opinion favoring the outlawing of all magazine guns for hunting
According to Charlie's Serialization the last 8 ga Parker was 174013; probably made in 1916.

Best, Austin

Good luck getting the law changed. Until then, well I'll leave it that I know that a lot a messy geese have been cleaned out from around private ponds with Parker 8ga's shooting lead.

Austin, you must not overlook why sportsmen of that time wanted to outlaw certain caliber. etc. Market hunters had about killed everything at that time. Duck, turkey, deer populations were very low. The exact opposite then we have today. Market duck hunters would hide in the weeds with a 8 ga, wait for ducks to land in the water and when a whole bunch got there, they'd be waylayed as they swam around. So sportsmen objected as they would today. There were no limits and it was felt that Congress could not set limits for constitutional reasons.

Those concerns are not valid today. We have so many regulations that is it almost impossible to hunt anything without committing some violation!!!! Congress no longer worries about the pesky constitution.

What difference would it make if turkey hunters used a 8 ga if rifles are permitted? I challenge anyone to come up the a rational basis to allow turkey hunting with a rifle but not a 8 ga. Besides, even if a few more turkeys were killed with an 8 ga, which really wouldn't happen, how many people would really go buy old 8 ga to shoot them with. Very few. It wouldn't change how many I shoot. The bag limit here is 2. I take 2 every year. What's the difference what I shoot them with. Two more dead turkeys won't hurt the population that has grown yearly for decades despite allowing them to be shot with rifles.

It is interesting how there are different views on the topic. It is something worth giving real study as the results may be surprising.

You can legally hunt waterfowl with an 8ga on the other side of the Atlantic.
IMHO it would be more ethical to use an 8ga than a 410 for waterfowl even if the 410 is legal. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

Should it be illegal to hunt with an 8 gauge?
 

That's about all we'd need to set us back 50 years, Ray. The issue isn't six ducks, shooting turkeys with rifles, fair chase, constitutional change. It's public acceptance. We're barely tolerated now.

Our sport is polluted with ginks who think bigger is better, and if there's a bigger gauge the ginks will have them whether they can shoot them well or not. Consider the noise, unwanted sound.

For years I've watched these lads who blithely as the Bobbsey Twins close with their barrages where I've hunted with 12s for more than 60 years. For what? A bigger bang, a bigger gun, a fanciful notion?

More galling is that I've yet to see a cannonading gunner who shot any better than those with traditional gauges. Each has a right to pleasure as long as it does not infringe the pleasure of others.

Very well said King. "It's public acceptance. We're barely tolerated now." If for no other reason, "public acceptance" must be a primary consideration in all that we do with guns today, especially in less than rural places.

Dean, unfortunately public acceptance doesn't mean evidence-based reasoning, as Ray suggests. Publics often endorse weird notions. We have to live with what is. As a flier and shooter, I must accommodate majorities for the enjoyment of my pursuits whether it makes sense or not.

Fellas, the "public acceptance" argument, which is also flawed, doesn't answer the question I posed. I was wondering if there is a plausible argument that allowing the use of a rifle, and not an 8 ga, really had something to do with "fair chase" when hunting a turkey or any other big game. I wanted to know what I was overlooking. I could think of a plausible reason not to allow a rifle as they are more dangerous because of the range. Hunters can get killed by a stray bullet a lot faster then stray shot. I think the rule is irrational until somebody can explain the error of my thoughts.

Now, the new "public acceptance" question. Do you really think the anti-hunters really care what weapon is used to take a turkey? They don't want us hunting at all. Period!!!!!!
I don't think they could even explain the difference between a rifle and an 8 ga. We are not "acceptable" to them because we use a 12 ga. They think we're terrible just for hunting.

"Acceptance" depends on where you live. I'm down south. Hunters are generally accepted here. In fact, I don't know of a true anti-hunter around here. Some choose not to hunt but they're not against it. Heck, around here you don't even need a hunting license to hunt hogs (except on public land). Thus, I think hunting is not "unaccepted" by the public or there would be a rule requiring a license. Certainly the legislature would like to require a license so it could raise more money but the "public" won't allow it!

Each state should do what it thinks best. The rule isn't valid just because it's 92 years old! In my view, there is no valid reason to disallow use of an 8 ga in light the of the other regulations in place. I'm openminded so I hope someone can give me some rational basis for the rule-even if I think my argument is better. I think if we really thought about what real purpose the rule serves now we'd find that it serves no purpose. Just throwing around phases like "fair chase" and "public acceptance" without really explaining how it is "fair" or "acceptable" doesn't get to the crux of the matter. How would it really set us back 50 years? Anti-hunters still won't like us. Hunters in general would probably be supportive with proper regulation. The rest of the world (the majority) probably wouldn't even care or understand.

Please believe me that I respect everyone's views. It's a interesting subject. I must have too much time on my hands by worrying about it.

I do agree with Bruce. It's not likely this rule can be changed if for no other reason that the gun owning, freedom loving members of this forum can't even agree on the subject.



I realize that folks in New England, for example, my not be as accepting. In the real world I don't think the average person really cares if we hunt or not. They have more important things to worry about. The problem is that the extremists on both sides of the issue get all the press leading everyone to believe there is great disagreement on the subject.

King, I don't think bigger is better. I just think it would be fun to hunt a turkey with a 8 ga and no one can give me a sound reason why it shouln't be allowed. Again, think of the reason they were outlawed in the first place, ie to stop market hunters from killing everything in sight. Is that true today? Of course not. Other regulations that came in effect later takes care of that problem, ie bag limits. If the reason the rule was enacted is no longer a factor, why have the rule? Why should I be punished for the sins of my great-grandfather?

Ray, reason prevailing isn't the thing. The thing behind the thing is democratic societies decide how they want to live. As a freelance social and natural resources activist, my work involves making and changing laws. In forestry, myths have become legislation through ignorance, militating against sustainable forest management which publics proclaim that they want. Our countries choose whacky policies by popular consent notwithstanding reality, we change our minds but are left with the misery. Reason or the public interest doesn't enter into it---public interest meaning what we'd choose if we saw clearly, though rationally and acted disinterestedly.

Perhaps you can make the argument that 8ga and larger shotguns should be allowed for turkey hunting once non-toxic shot is mandated for all hunting. Sadly I think that day is coming.

The fact is that you can shoot a turkey with an eight gauge in some states. I don't know which states they are, but they are out there. I'm not sure that the 1918 law covers RSA waterfowl either. Maybe someone could check this out.

the 8 ga is a lot of fun to shootand to hunt with...i also wish that the laws could be changed to be able to hunt ducks and geese with them...these old guns weremeant to be able tohunt water fowl with...this is my opinion but i belive that most of your market hunters used 10 and 12 ga guns to hunt with... and when the repeating arms came along it was the 12 ga that was favored to hunt with....there was not more than a little over 400 parker 8 ga built only about 50 or less lc smiths built....there were millions of model 97s winchesters and remingtons and marlins and the list goes on.....the repeater with its fire power greater than the 8 ga as killed far more game than the mighty 8.....it was not the guns faults but it was mans we thought that there would never be a end to the flocks of ducks and geese... man almost brought extinction to most game but man finally seen the light... man has seen that we had to look after the game animals and birds that we all love to hunt...so throgh the efforts of man he has turned hisself around and sees that through our efforts that we will preserve something for our future generations.....in my opion it was nou the large bore gun the punt gun nore the 4 or 8 ga or the repeaters that liked to have took our game and wide life into the history books... it was ourselves that we had to bring under control... all things being said the few that want to hunt with the 8 ga should be allowed to hunt with them.... the 8 ga would be a wonderful fowling piece still if man had understood that it was hisself that had destroyed the great flocks ofducks and geese.....charlie

Amen, Charlie.

Bill, I'm glad to hear some states allow them.

King, I agree with your last post. It is well taken. Democratic societies have silly rules at times. I don't think it was silly when the law was enacted in 1918 for the reasons I've previously stated. Cutting down on punt guns, 8 ga and repeaters magazines helped waterfowl popualtions. But it's silly now. Most state regualtion on the subject is done by bureaucrats, not legislatures. There is nothing democratic about that. There is no state statue here on the subject but rather a regulation promulgated by Fish and Game. I think they should not be used for waterfowl unless they can shoot nontoxic shot. That's rational-and I think rational still counts for something in this counrty. Why give in to the irrational. Look what has happened to us by doing so in the past. Otherwise, it's time for a change if the people want change.

This is a great discussion and everyone's opinions are valid. I'm enjoying this thread immensely and I don't own a 8 bore and I wouldn't care to hunt with one only for the weight factor.... a fifteen lb. gun is a fifteen lb. gun no matter if you're hunting turkey or geese so it certainly wouldn't be my choice for a fun morning of hunting, But, hey - if you want to hunt with an 8 bore, I agree- the reasons for banning the big gun are no longer valid.

The thought crossed my mind that currently many of the waterfowl restrictions for firearms have been relaxed for spring snow geese seasons; unplugged guns, use of electronic callers, no bag limits etc. Perhaps a petition could be made to USFWS to lift the gauge restriction as well.

Pete, great idea! Isn't it ironic that the gun was outlawed for killing too much waterfowl and now the feds want us to kill every darn snow goose we see? Times have changed.

We all are right in our viewpoints, IMO
 

Tomorrow, 26th August, besides being one of my beloved daughter's birthday, is also the 90th. anniversary of the Right to Vote issue- More mis-information about duck hunting, a man's right to have a drink after a hard 8 hrs. at Bethlehem Steel or Russell, Birdsell & Ward, and the general anti-hunting anti-whatever they don't understand movements have come from that, IMO.

I shot a Churchill 8 ga. with 34" barrels once, belongs to a brother PGCA member, and after that a 12 HE Super Fox feels light. If a man wants to use that two shot cannon and pay the price for non-toxic shot loads (a Fed reg that ain't ever gonna change, face it) and hire a small lad with a wheelbarrow to tote it for him, I say- Hell yes. If he wants to use a .410 for Turkeys or Geese, then as Col. Askins said, "better he should take up ping-pong"--

Two years ago this coming Winter- in our 30 day late Goose season, where we are allowed 5/day- a friend and I took our Mossenburghers- 835 Ulti-Mag pumps that take 3 and 3 & 1/2" shot, bought a box each of Federal BB steel- one box 3" the other 3 & 1/2" and flipped a coin, I lucked out and drew the 3" loads- we only took paired up shots at incoming birds at tree-top heights- we killed 7 birds, five stone cold dead in the air, two requiring a finishing shot or two- no difference we could see or advantage in using the 3 & 1/2" (ten ga. equiv) loads- dead is dead.

Sportsmanship afield and clean killing shots are not 100% dependent on gauge, it is the skill and experience level of the man behind the gun- I have no quarrel with the dove, quail and skeetists who love the .410, but like my mentor the late T. Nash Buckingham, believe it has no place in the realm of waterfowling.

I also agree with the analysis of the growing bunch of "antis"- they view ALL guns as being evil, and wouldn't know an 8 gauge if it bit them on the ying-yang!:bigbye:

What about the 165,000 Canada Geese the state of New York plans to "euthanize"? Wouldn't "Death by 8-Gauge" be far more merciful and dignified for such a worthy target and table fare?

Gentlemen, we just might be starting a movement here. I like Dean's idea! And we could give whatever we can't eat to those who are needy. Win-win for all.

I think [ and could be wrong ] it's Federal law about migratory game birds. As far as hunting anything else with a shotgun in Michigan there is no law about gauge size. Probably the same for any other state - their own rules apply. Paul

the 8 gauge is legal to hunt with in mississippi... except migortory birds....its a great turkey gun also does well on deer with buckshot.... also a good long range gun on those peskey crows.....charlie

Now i havnt read all the pages of this thread but this what i think

The 8 ga was outlawed because wtih LEAD shot and a open choke like a modified and large 3 oz loads killed many many ducks so they made them laws of 1918 around lead shot basically .butr since lead has been outlawed the 8 ga shoul be reinstated it's only fair .Because a 8 ga with steel shot will not o what them old lead shot loads from 70 years back wold do .And in most states you can unt turkey or other game with a 8ga, im from Ga and we dont have a maximum gauge we have a minimal gauge 20 ga for big game deer,turkey,bear etc .

Nice to hear from the Southern lads-
 

Brother Paul Harm is right as far as Michigan regs are concerned- it is the Federal reg. that outlawed the 8 gauge gun. Apples to eggplants here- but you can legally use the big "Super-8" on any legal non-migratory game bird in proper season here, you can also use a scoped .300 Win. Magnum rifle for squirrels and rabbits or varmints and vermin, even in the "shotgun only" deer hunting area known as Zone Three by our DNR.

I think an element of practicality might enter the picture. There may have been a few 10 ga. repeaters (the Winchester lever action shotguns) back around 1895-1920, but the 8 gauge shotguns were basically either a single or a double barrel gun- so let's say, for the sake of spirited discussion, a Chesapeake Bay market hunter who added to his income during the waterfowling season used an 8- open choked and with "St. Ouis 3's" lead shot-not cheap to shoot, even reloading- he guides a client who has a Win. M1897 pump- 6-7 shots, shells way cheaper than his 8 ga., easier gun to handle--durable, good pointing for that style of shooting-

What was the national waterfowling picture in 1912-13 when the Weeks Mclean bill passed and the 8 gauge was banned? By then the M 1897, the Browning A-5, some with ten shot extensions, were in usage by market hunters, and the Model 12 was right around the corner- From reading Nash Buckingham's write-up, I guess many of the 8 and 10 bores were used by sportsmen, some of whom (possibly like Nash and his friend Eltinge Warner) wanted to see repeaters banned for waterfowling)--

Today with the National situation as I surmise it: Iraq, Afghanistan, ?? about the economy, the BP Gulf disaster, and the list goes on- to correct a possible error made back in 1912 to allow a small % of the duck hunting fraternity free choice in the gauge and type of weapon they might wish to use- sorry Boys, I am all for the 8 gauge for those who own them and want to use them, any more than a fine Hammer Parker 10 bore or any other vintage firearm that recalls the "good old days" to some of us- But I just don't see it happening.

But rest assured- if I should come across a brother waterfowler in some secluded spot using a 8 ga., even with lead loads- his secret will be safe with me- Maybe he'll have the good taste to be using a Parker!!:bigbye:

could get rocky mountain to headstamp 8 ga hulls with 10 ga . since most people havnt seen a 10 ga even modern they (game warden) we say okay your free :bigbye:. it's no worse than people using a 12 ga and taking 3-5 shots to kill a bird

I would encourage anyone that lives in a state that outlaws hunting with an 8 gauge, and would like to hunt with one to go find out how to change the law.
I did this last year and went before the Arizona Game Commission on October 9 2009. I found everyone at the Game and Fish department to helpful and encouraging. I was able to actually have my W C Scott & Son as well as my 10 gauge DH Parker brought into the Commission meeting by two Game and fish Department employees. I was able to present my case, as to why we should be able to use an 8 gauge for hunting, and why it has made no since to outlaw the use for the legal harvest of game. I was please at the end to hear the decision. That the Game Commission voted unanimously to allow the hunting of Game in AZ with an 8 gauge. Unfortunately the ruling is in limbo awaiting the Governor’s Regulatory Review Council. They need to place their stamp of approval on the change. We currently have a moratorium on all rule making in AZ. Once this moratorium is lifted the rule will be submitted and should be approved. This of course has no change to Federal laws. That said, one step at a time. If all 50 states approved the 8 gauge use, this might have an impact on the ability to change the Federal law.
I would be happy to send anyone the written argument I used before the commission if you let me know. It is several pages and I do not want to post it here unless I received prior approval.

what is also important is for all of us and more people is to email someone like remington,mossberg,browing or ...benelli-stoeger nad ask for them to make either a 10 or 8 ga. i think if you could push the 10 ga on them then after a while we would see some 8 ga/ I shoot a 10ga because 12 ga shells feel wierd in the palm of my hand . i think the govement would say why make it legal when no company even produces a 8g a and as of now there are only 4 models of 10 ga in procution compared to hundreds of models of 12 ga

I've been watching to see if someone would post this idea. Let's just say that I think it HAS been done before, but I'm not calling anyone out! A Parker doesn't say "8 gauge" anywhere on it, either.

Jim

I surprised to here that 8 ga can be used in some states. That's great. I do a lot out of state turkey hunting and every place I have beed has a max of 10 ga and min of 20 ga.

I'm inertested in knowing more about how repeaters with 10 shots made such a difference. When I use my Benelli, the ducks are usually out of range by the thrid shot. I can't imagaine getting off 10 shots!!

Based on what I've read the problem with 8 ga and up was this: Market hunters would use them with shooting sticks as they were heavy. They would wait for waterfowl to land and flock up on the water. When there was a good bunch in front of him, he'd blast them with both barrels killing many with two shots. That would seem to be an efftective killing method cause you could get two shots off pretty quick. Would seem more effective then a repeater which allowed three shots.

I don't know anything about the choke sizes. What chokes did 8 ga's tend to have?

It might have something to do with a more "target-rich environment" that existed in those days as compared to now. I know an old gentleman who was a skeet champion in his day. I never hunted with him, but back in the days "when quail were plentiful," I have several friends who attest that he could get off seven shots on a covey rise from his much-favored Model 12, and rarely miss. It would be interesting to have seen once, but more than that would start to seem unpleasant to watch.

Jim

Jim, yes, it has been done. In fact, as we speak, there is a company in Pakistan I think it is, that is making a run of eight gauge brass empties with ten gauge headstamps. They are not being made for me, however. If I could find a guide who could cause those Delaware snows to covey up in range, I would spend some days with my A-5 with nine shot Parsons magazine. I think that would be more fun than the eight gauge.

From what i seen alot of 8 gauges had or have modified chokes which is odd since most guns back then had full choke .
i bet you could use a hevi shot turkey load out of a 10 ga with improved cylinder choke with a great spread .

Been on the road for a couple weeks and enjoying reading the many posts missed during that time. The Federal side of this question is the Migratory Birds Convention of 1916 which was signed by the United States and Britain (on behalf of Canada, when we were barely past being a colony).

From my understanding, a state could legalize the use of an 8 gauge for hunting species OTHER THAN MIGRATORY BIRDS. Both the US and Canada created legislation taking into account the Convention. In Canada, it is known as the Migratory Birds Convention Act. I think it is the same name in the US but others can verify that. Here is the applicable citation from the Act in Canada:

Migratory Birds Regulations
Regulations Respecting the Protection of Migratory Birds
C.R.C., c. 1035
MIGRATORY BIRDS CONVENTION ACT, 1994

REGULATIONS RESPECTING THE PROTECTION OF MIGRATORY BIRDS

HUNTING METHODS AND EQUIPMENT

15. (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) and section 23.1, no person shall hunt a migratory bird

(a) except with a long bow and arrow or with a shotgun not larger than number 10 gauge;

Of course there are many further regulations but this is where 8 gauge and larger bores are disallowed for migratory birds.

While not impossible to change an Act linked to an international convention, it is difficult. You will note that, in Canada, the Act was amended in 1994. This was to recognize aboriginal and other subsistence hunters' needs.

Cheers,
Jack

gauge is measure by the amount of lead in the bore or barrle right ? If not using lead shot doesnt that make it a different gauge ?on a techincality :rotf:

The 8-gauge was low-hanging fruit for the Congresspersons seeking to find a reason why waterfowl populations were becoming endangered. Banning them was easy. I would recommend Nash Buckingham's "Are We Shooting 8-Gauge Guns" and a couple recent Sherman Bell contributions to the DGJ. You can't use an 8 but you can use a .410 - go figure. NB's point was with three-shot auotmatics and pumps you had as much firepower as you'd have with an 8 double. What's the diff? I say you 8-gauge shooters get yourselves some of Mr. Murphy's 8/10 headstamped shells and have at it at a private, out-of-the way pond. Use lead too.