What do I have?
 

Parker Bros., 12G. Damascus barrels. The markings on the water table are,

2
92714
G
Damascus barrels, hammerless, the bores shine like mirrors, locks up tighter than any modern SxS I have ever held. I also have the original leather take down case, although the cleaning rod was misplaced sometime over the last 30 years. Condition is about par with age. Some minor dings in the furniture. The finish on the barrels looks more brown than some of the Damascus black and white I have seen. Case color pretty much gone.
The last time this was fired, would have been in the "50's" when my Dad hunted using Winchester AAs. He didn't know about Damascus There is a long and interesting story about how this fine shotgun came into my family's possession. I am the third generation to own it.
Any information, or help, is greatly appreciated.

Looks like a GH 12 ga., pistol grip stock with factory 26" barrels. Lets hear the story!!

Thanks for the reply.
Now for the rest of the story. The original purchaser of this shotgun, was the man who started the refrigerator company that became "Gibson". My grandfather worked there. The gun was at the gunsmith's, for whatever reason, I don't know, when the owner passed away. The gunsmith thought he had inherited a prize, but my grandfather, knowing about this gun, bought it from the widow. The gunsmith thinking he could keep it, was just a little bit upset.
How's that for history?

Yes 26" barrels, pistol grip, but marked G, not GH. Was that common for the period? I learned from the serial #, that the manufacture date was 1899. Just looking for information.

Correct

You can get really good information on this if you post some pictures. The expertise on this site is endless and what these folks can tell you about your family gun will be very worthwhile. Also, you can possibly get a letter that will describe how it left the factory and if it ever was returned for repairs or upgrades.

26" is uncommon. Value will hinge on condition.

Thank you all for the responses. I was looking for more Info, as to the desirability, value. Is this something a collector would have an interest in? Keep in mind, I have no intention of selling, I just want to know a ballpark value. I would really like to hunt with it. The feel and balance, makes me think woodcock and grouse. My concern is the Damascus. It's a shame that one should fear destroying a vintage firearm.

Absolutely nothing can be said to answer those questions without knowing the condition of the gun for certain.

But, a GH with not much case color and wearing barrel finish would not be considered a "collectors" item. More of a shooter.

There is much more knowledge today about Damascus barrels and old guns than there was years ago. But i still overhear talk of damascus barrels being unsafe at local gun shows.

So, just curious , how do you rate the condition of a 117 yr. old firearm? Dents and dings in the wood? Wear caused by handling and use? Patina?
I have seen pics of restored Damascus barreled shotguns, Parkers specifically, and while they are beautiful, it just seems to me, restoration and refinishing, takes away the character and history. Why take an old gun and try to make it look like a new one?

So if a person can't afford high condition guns he's not a collector.

B.Dudley,

I Have had this gun in my safe for about 20 years, and would love to shoot it. I'm not as concerned about value, as my father was

Geeze... i cant seem to win with you, can I?

I am not speaking of people who collect, i speak of items that are in a condition or of a rarity that makes them collectors pieces as investments.

While I agree condition and rarity make things "more collectible" you still need to take into consideration regardless of condition there will be no more made that are "original" . So I tend to think they're all collectible to a degree .

If it wasn't collectable we would not be having this discussion and this forum would not exist. Parker Bros shotguns represent the best in American craftsmanship historically. Therfore, there is high interest in any and everything Parker Bros. Without knowing the condition of your Parker it is hard to render judgement on value or shoot ability. The NRA website has two grading systems for firearms. One for antique firearms and one for modern. The definition of both are specific for grades from excellent, good, fair and poor. Antiques are usually those made before 1899. So it is best to look at those guideline and try to objectively see where yours is. As far as shoot ability a gunsmith needs to make that evaluation.

I'm not a collector, I'm a saver. I have a gun with history that means more to me than any monetary value. I will continue to pass it down from oldest son, to oldest son. As has been done. That's how I got it. At this point, my son is already designated receiver. and his son, my grandson, is next. Grandpa will teach him the value of tradition. I really don't care about the value of the gun. It has more value to me for the history. I was only curious about what it was actually worth. When my father handed it over to me, 30 years ago, he claimed it would sell for 2900.00. I always doubted that, But, you know he may have not been far off. I don't care what it is worth.
I am just happy to be in possession of it.

I would be proud as well to have my Grandpa's Parker. Enjoy:):):)

Harry,
Thank you for your response. I appreciate your candid opinion. Because this gun has Damascus barrels, and having the desire to actually shoot this , I was trying to determine should I or should I not invest in having the barrels sleeved to be able to fire modern shells in it. I have no problem leaving it as a wall hanger, but every time I take it out of the safe, and shoulder it, I have the desire to put it to it's intended use. It just feels good. I was only wondering about a ballpark figure before I invest $2000 into a set of sleeves for a $500 gun.

Yes Harry, I am proud to own my "Grandfather's Parker", but my dilemma is, I have 13 grandchildren of my own. So, who gets it?
Tradition says, oldest son, to oldest son.

Kurt - don't sleeve it. Why destroy a set of beautiful Damascus barrels that may be perfectly safe and shootable?

I and many other PGCA members shoot most all of our Damascus, Twist, Laminated, Bernard, Stub Twist... barreled guns. We simply shoot appropriate loads in them. Most 'off the shelf' shotgun ammo is made to operate semi-auto shotgun actions and is a bit too stout to please our old guns.
There are ammo companies that cater to the guys who shoot these "dangerous" old guns, such as Rio and RST. They produce low pressure loads that still have the velocity we need and kill game just like the 'off the shelf' ammo.

Where do you live? If you're nearby I would be glad to have a look at your 'Family Parker.'






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It would be a cold day before I'd sleeve a gun . Think I have something like 14 or 15 Damascus barreled guns and I shoot them all . If the bores are rough enough that you question it I'd give serious consideration to having Briley put in a set of full length tubes in day 20 gauge . The two tubes are about $600 I think .

Condition of the barrels is the 1st consideration on shoot ability. I am not qualified to make that kind of determination. But, if the barrels are in shootable condition I would use RST lite shells. The Damascus construction is not as much a factor as the barrels condition.

http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/2-12-Gauge.aspx

After reading your initial post it sounds as if the bores are nice by your description . If it were me I'd probably just shoot some of my low pressure reloads and go about my business . But I can't sit here and tell someone else to do that . What you need is to find someone with a wall thickness gauge and check your barrels . If they decide they're thick enough and ring true I'd say go to town !

Kurt, I don't believe anyone who has offered thoughts or advice is trying to "pull your chain" or mislead you. If you want a range of value, you will at least have to post quality pictures and from your description it won't be high dollars. Most of us consider the value of a family heirloom as "priceless". If the Damascus tubes are in good shape and have adequate barrel thickness and is on face there is probably no need to have them sleeved, many members of this board shoot thousands of rounds through Damascus barrels, most load or buy "low pressure" shells for the benefit of the wood and the fact they have been made a while (many years). You won't get many better answers unless you post good pictures and by the way, chances are good that having the gun modified by sleeving is not a good investment, unless the barrels are no good and you want to fix it. You are the owner, you can do with it as you wish.

Kurt you haven't said where you are from. There are Parker people in almost if not all the states in the us. You may be able to have someone look at the gun for you and determine if it is safe to fire. If the gun is in safe condition RST makes shells with loads for every thing you might wont to shoot. And they don't cost 2K nor will they ruin your gun.

you ask for a vaue to be placed on the gun i believe the guns value would be in the 800 to 1000 dollars...and since this gun as you said has damascuss barrels no gun smith will tell you that damascuss is safe to shoot...sounds like your barrels are in decent shape go and find somebody to measure the thickness of your barrels at the bores end...nearly everbody would agree that 35 thosands is safe i myself have some that are thinner that i shoot..but thats up to you....charlie

Wow. I am impressed by the responses I have received from my original post. You guys are great. I live in mid Michigan, about 25 NE of Grand Rapids.
I have been storing this gun in a silicone sock, since it was given to me about 35 years ago. I pulled it out tonight and shouldered it, and it just felt so good, the balance, the weight, just everything felt like it was an extension of me.
I would love to carry this into the field, and shoot a bunny or two or some pheasants or take it to the skeet range and bust some clays.. I have done extensive research on Damascus, and learned that proofing a barrel can destroy it. I don't want to go there. My main concern is, will I destroy this fine firearm by pulling the trigger?

You're in luck Kurt.

Take your gun right over to Brad or his son Parker at Bachelder Master Gunmaker in Grand Rapids. He has worked on many, many of our Damascus Parkers. A nicer, more honest businessman you will never meet. He has refinished, repaired, or restored a great many Parkers and he has done excellent work on a few of mine. He can measure the wall thickness of your barrels and tell you if it is safe to shoot. How lucky can a guy be to live that close to Brad Bachelder!

I'm jealous!






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+1 for Brad. he's da man!

I second that X10

As Dean stated your extremely lucky to live so close to one of the finest Double gun restores in the country. If he can't tell you what you need to know than no one can. By the way the British regularly reproof Damascus barrels even today.

Kurt, I've enjoyed reading this thread and you've been given great advice. Brad has worked on a number of my Parkers and without exception his work is superb. I am particularly pleased that tradition is important to you as it is to most if not all of us PGCA Members. One of my Parkers that I had DelGrego's restore about ten years ago was purchased by my grandfather and subsequently inherited by my dad and then to me. When I pass, it will go to my oldest grandson who is presently 10. I'm planning (and praying) that I live long enough to imbue Logan with the spirit and importance of tradition so that he will cherish this gift and pass it on when he's ready. 25 miles is a cake walk to get over to Bachelder's and have Brad measure your barrels. He'll also tell you what recommended loads to use in your GH (as he has done with me in the past). Welcome to THe PGCA and this forum.

Wow. Kurt is just the kind of new Parker owner we like to see come on this forum. One that understands and appreciates tradition and doesn't hesitate to come on here and ask questions and take advice from the most extensive Parker knowledge pool on the planet. Also someone who realizes that all you have to do is shoulder any Parker just once to fall in love with it. I have a feeling these guns are in for a productive future in his and his kids hands. Brad should be your next stop Kurt; whatever you need he can supply.