Rib legends.
 

I was at Turnbulls last week and was looking through the selection of Parker roll stamps that they have and saw one that was very interesting. I double checked The Parker Story and there is no mention of it. And i have not seen a gun with it yet.
It is a short legend that simply reads "THE PARKER BROTHERS GUN". With the typical arrows at each end of it.

Has anyone seen this mark on a gun or know when it may have been used?

Nope, never have.

It would be interesting to learn whatever might be discovered about it.





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There's one for Parkers found! Let's see if we can find one!

Brothers vs Bros
 

Brian, do you believe the stamping roll is legitimate? If it is, and I have no reason to believe it either is or is not, I wonder what it's intended use would have been.
The use of the fully spelled out word 'Brothers' appears somewhat infrequently on barrels, and I have only seen one gun where it was spelled out on the receiver.
I was sure I had at least one gun with the words 'Brothers' on the barrel legend, and found I have two; a 179xxx VH 16, and an 89xxx VH 12;
Six Hammer guns, in 4 grades, ranging from 16xxx to 79xxx, all say 'Bros'.

One set of Damascus 16ga Hammerless (89,xxx) says 'Bros'.

Four Titanic barrels here say 'Bros', but I don't know what two sets, away for refinishing say.

One set of Parker Special Steel say 'Bros', and one set of Acme, says 'Bros' also. This set is only a few thound guns away from the 179xxxVH that says 'Brothers'.
I would be interested in hearing about other guns, and barrel steel grades that are marked 'Brothers'.

Apologies to Brian if I've somewhat hijacked his thread topic.

No prob.
The fact that it says Brothers vs Bros. is interesting in itself.

Since it has brothers at all, it must have been from the Meriden Era. And maybe just never used for anything.

I dont know what to think of its legitimacy. I guess i have nonreason to beleive it is not. I am sure all those rolls may have come out of Lefevers. Not sure.

I find it odd that the roll die simply says THE PARKER BROTHERS GUN with no barrel steel identifier. I can't even imagine what gun or grade of gun that stamp might have been used for.

Maybe it was intended to roll stamp a plate for use in a display of Parker guns in a show or exhibition identifying all of them as THE PARKER BROTHERS GUN.





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Brian didn't indicate the font size, but I would have guessed a Display legend would have been much larger, and probably hand engraved, or printed.
The technology available to Parker, in the making of a roll stamp was pretty basic. It would have likely been a high carbon blank, hand engraved in an annealed condition, then hardened. This process would likely have taken several days.
With today's available technology, such a tool could be produced in a matter of hours, likely using an EDM method (Electrical Discharge Machining) using an engraved graphite die

interesting find...charlie

That is a thought dean. Maybe.

The font size is comparable to a rib legend.

Shall we see how many " Brothers " we can find? I have one on a VH # 95xxx

I have a VH 12ga. #140524 marked "Parker Brothers"

Is it on a standard concave rib or a flat top rib or a ventilated rib? Can you tell if it is roll-stamped or engraved?

Further, does it say "THE PARKER BROTHERS GUN"? With no barrel steel shown as Brian describes?





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I think some of these posters reporting on guns with "brothers" are missing the point.

Here are 89621, upper, and 178135, lower. Both are roll stamped on concave ribs. BBoth guns are VH grade.
Brian, I think the point is to try and determine if there is an age, grade, sn correlation to the limited use of 'Brothers.'

The point, as I see it, is to discover what the roll die at Turnbull's was used for or on.





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I think it's "intended" use will remain highly speculative, in as much, as no one has ever seen it so used, on a top rib or anywhere else.

Unless Brian can get Doug to further enlighten us on the die's origin, and it's creator's intention, Finding some correlation in the use of the full spelling of Brothers, with respect to a time period, or grade use, may turn out to be the only thing that might lend some idea of it's intended use. If Brian could get Doug to let him take the die, examine it's font and compare it to known fonts used on top ribs, it maight at least give some clue. It may have just been a customer's special order request, used on one gun. I'm not holding my breath for a definitive answer, and think it will go down as one more of many unexplained Parker marking anomalies.

I can agree with all of that Edgar, with the exception that it may have been used on just one gun... Or just twenty, or fifty guns. We know that Parker Bros. would simply engrave the ribs of just a small number of Parkers with special or unusual barrels or even just special ribs. Barrels with more standardized features would have been marked with a roll die - but here we have a roll die that may never have been used on more than a small handful of ribs. And so, the question remains, what was the purpose of this particular roll die?





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Perhaps this was already offered up ,but you guys mentioned the lefever shop who would at one time make /sleeve new barrels for Parker gun ...perhaps they had the die made up to distinguish their work in some way .

Barrels that i have seen that were finished and matted by Lefever not been roll stamped. They were just full matted. But that is just based on the few that i have seen.

I will inquire with one contact i have (a former Lefever emplyee) as to if he knew that they had the dies and if they used them.

I presume Doug has no explanation?





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I have not asked doug. I was not speaking with him when i was reviewing what they had available.

I have a DH Parker that has a roll stamp (as I recall it is rolled) that says "Lefever Steel". I'll dig it out when I get a little time. It is a twelve gauge #3 frame sleeved by Lefever to 3 1/2" magnum ten gauge. The stamping is very professionally done. It looks like it was done at Parker Brothers.

From speaking with Doug and Keith V. over the years they would have new roll dies manufactured for special projects. It could be that this is not an original Parker roll die but one that was made for a unique restoration or custom job. Some pics of the roll dies at Turnbull Mfg.

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/y...89988502_o.jpg

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/y...13123009_o.jpg

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/y...89684093_n.jpg

I believe you're only disagreeing with me because you're an ornery cuss who just likes to wind me up. It was entirely speculative that it was used on one gun, just as it is equally speculative it was used on two, ten or fifty. Until someone produces one, I think it's much closer to none than 50.

During the absence of more important things, I examined the above two "Brothers" guns and despite being nearly 90,000 guns apart, I would feel confident in saying both ribs were impressed by the very same roll die. Austin and John's guns fall in between my two. I am sure they rolled up a mess of ribs at once, but can't guess whether the the Brothers were separated from the Bros.

Does anyone have a guess as to the life of the Meriden roll dies, i.e. how many ribs could be impressed before it was determined to be worn out (or as we have occasionally seen, broken)?

I think Double O nailed it.

In 2007, I purchased an A1S Parker Reproduction "In the white" from Tony Galazan. Tony was kind and allowed me to buy the sample gun that he used in his advertisements.

I live a "stones throw" from a world class engraver named Lisa Tomlin. She designed the engraving for this gun in a traditional Parker style with SPRING GOBBLER SEASON IN VIRGINIA as the theme in the engraved scenes. As always, Lisa did a masterful job which involved 200 hours of work ( 2barrel set, 20 ga, english grip, sst and a beavertail foearm ).

I had Turnbull do the metal work and case color. I also requested that Doug take the existing stamp off the top barrel rib inscription and replace it with THE PARKER GUN designed stamp. The stamp was designed with Parker "arrows" on both sides.

Brian, I expect that stamp is what you saw at Doug's shop.

I hope I did not get in trouble!! :rolleyes:

Did the stamp have "brothers" or just "the parker gun". If so, it is not the same stamp.

This just gets betterer and betterer.

But I do like crankin' you up :bigbye:





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Brian, The stamp that Doug had built for me appears as follows: THE PARKER BROTHERS GUN. The arrows are pointed inward and have five veins in the fletching.

Aha! There's the explanation for the roll stamp Brian describes.

Thanks very much Ralph.






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Yes. Case closed. Thanknyou.

Ralph, why did you have that stamp special made? Any particular reason?

Brian, I had the stamp made for a very specific reason. The entire project was to create, as close as possible, the original look of a Parker A1S. The original rib stamp "Parker Reproduction by Winchester.........Made on Japan" just did not get me there.

I understand.
If it were me, I would think using one of the Meriden ACME or PEERLESS stamps would be just fine vs. making something new.
Thanks again for helping get to the bottom of this matter.

I see the makings of a Parker Pages story here.

The subject of rib markings by both roll stamping as well as engravings is covered in great detail in The Parker Story.





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I would love to hear more about the gun that the special bbl rib marking was made for.

This has been a very interesting thread, and thanks Ralph for clearing up this mystery, I hope one day to see this gun which I know must be breath taking. see you at the HOF? Gary

Gary, GOD willing and the creek does not rise, I will see you there!!