Damascus Vs Titanic
 

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the Parker Collector family. (Or technically about to be) I am about to make a decision on a DH 16 guage Damascus. I was hoping to get an honest answer on Damascuc Vs Titanic. So far I have talked to two people on this. They couldn't be farther apart. One says they are fine with the right shot, and the other says stay away. I was wondering if anyone knows what one (DH 16 guage) was worth? Should hold out for a Titanic or go with the Damascus?

Thanks All

Providing both the Damascus and the Titanic barrels are in safe condition - e.g., sufficient wall thickness, absence of severe pitting and dents - either gun should be completely serviceable with the appropriate ammo. Personally, I prefer the Damascus for the beauty of the pattern. Almost everyone at my club who lays eyes on one of my nice Damascus Parkers is completely amazed. It is also a great opportunity to teach folks who have always heard that Damascus will 'unwind' if shot with modern smokeless that this is inherently wrong.

Yup, I'll take the Damascus barreled gun, all else being equal.






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No practical difference in strength.

Have you read Dr. Drew's treatise in the Damascus Barrel section?

I would shoot either one , but prefer the damascus just for looks.
Good luck with your search, Tom

I don't think there is any question that you can shoot a sound damascus barrel Parker with period correct nitro powder loads. I think there will always be people who will tell you that you shouldn't because that was the advice for decades from ammo and gun makers, outdoor writers and hunter education classes. Many shooters and hunters, dare I say the majority have little to no interest in vintage shotguns. That said it will always be easier to sell a fluid steel gun because nobody thinks there could be a problem with shooting it. When the time comes, a good gun, fluid or damascus will sell based on it's merits, it's just easier to sell a fluid steel gun IMO.

As to value it depends on several factors the first being condition. Are the barrels in the original length they left the factory? Are the chokes correct or have they been opened up? Is the wall thickness safe or have the barrels been honed to remove pits? Is the stock original or has it bee shortened or had a pad added?

No one here will give you a value without some detailed pictures. I have (as do many here) several Damascus barreled guns and shoot them all with low pressure loads and all are quite safe. The value of a fluid steel gun and a Damascus barreled gun of equal condition won't vary very much in today's market.

Find the gun you like have it checked out by a competent gunsmith and enjoy it.

Bruce, Thank You for directing me to Dr Drew Hause. He goes into great historical and technical explanations of Damascus steel and barrels. I have some more reading to do, but it seems that in short..the ammunition manufacturers had a lot to do with popularizing the Titanic steel. With proper powder/loads it seems either are fine. I appreciate your guidance, and Thank You for your reply

C.O.B. THANK YOU! These are exactly the questions I need to be asking before I commit.
I am still searching and will put pictures when I narrow down. I have found two gentlemen that seem to specialize in antique Parker shotguns. Jay with Vintage firearms (Grand Rapids MI) and Mike in Olathe Kansas. (Mikeej99) both are on gunbroker. If there are any other gentlemen that specialize in Parkers, I would love to know. My interests is with a 12 or 16 guage with nicer engraving and Ejectors. I am really migrating toward the DHE model.

Tell Jay or Mike what you want and they will find it for you. Both are good guys.

I know Jay very well but do not know Mike. Another person I have dealt with for over 15 years is Steve Barnett. He is a VERY fair person to deal with. If the ejectors are a big consideration you will likely end up with fluid steel barrels BUT I do have a couple of Damascus guns with them.

Dan the 16 gauge has been my gun of choice for the past 25+ years. Great for all upland hunting, light enough to carry all day and with enough killing power for the toughest birds you are likely to encounter. The only draw back is availability of ammunition so to take the fullest advantage of the 16 gauge you may want to consider reloading your own which will give you options to shoot super light 3/4 ounce loads for clay targets up to the occasional 1 1/8th ounce load for wild flushing pheasants on the plains while keeping chamber pressures in a reasonable limit for use in damascus barrels. If you haven't already found it 16GA.com has some valuable information on all aspects of the 16 gauge that my interest you.

You really can't go wrong either way with the barrels type. Buy the gun on it's own merits based on condition & configuration. Personally I love the 16ga & have often said if I had to go down to one shotgun, it would be a 16ga.

I looked along time to find a DH-16 Damascus on an O-frame. I found this one several years ago & had Brad Bachelder restore it. The neat thing is it weighs six pounds even and has full length skeet master 28ga tubes fit to it for a two gauge gun.

Good luck with the hunt for your gun!!

i found some of Steve's listings. I will be contacting him. I am very impressed with Mike's knowledge and professionalism. He seems very honest and sincere about helping me find the right one. Thank you for the referral to Steve. I will let him know you referred him when we speak. We all want to know/trust who we are dealing with. Now its just a matter of picking the right one. Thanks Again C.O.B.

That is very helpful Steve. I DO reload. Do you have a specific load that you use? Powder, grains and shot? I will check out 16GA.com Very helpful Thank You!

Geez GH-16 I'm in awe. That is a beautiful gun. Thanks for the pics because That's the first 16 guage DHE i've seen with them. It looks like they may be hard to find. I may just have to be patient. I really like the looks of the Damascus. What loads do you use ?

This is my DH 16 Damascus on an 0 frame. I bought this from jay at Vintage Firearms while at the Southern a couple of years ago. I only shoot 2 1/2 inch low pressure shells in all of my guns.

Nice Rich. Did you have the barrels redone? They look great. Great wood too!

After reading the excellent article by Sherman Bell on violent proof tests of Damascus a few years back in the Double Gun Journal, I would give Damascus bbls the edge against fluid steel bbls of the same era.
All things being equal, condition wise, I would go with Damascus, every time.
BTW, I go with low pressure loads on any fine SxS, no matter when it a was manufactured.

For my Damascus guns I keep chamber pressure below 9K PSI and have found that Unique works very well in the 16 gauge and is usually available at your local gun store that sells reloading supplies. For hulls I like Federal and Cheddite trimmed to 2 9/16th inches and roll crimped, for wads Gualandi 1621 for 7/8th ounce and 1625 for 1 ounce with Winchester 209 primers. You can find recommended powder weights and many other tested loads by joining the 16 Gauge Reloaders Group, contact information is listed on 16GA.com

I HAVE HAD DEALINGS WITH MIKE SEVERAL TIMES AND HE IS KNOWLEDGEABLE AND FAIR.
WHEN I HAVE A CHOICE IN SHOOTING IN AN EVENT, I ALWAYS TAKE ONE OF MY DAMASCUS GUNS. I WON AN EVENT LAST SUMMER WITH MY 1873 VINTAGE STEPHEN GRANT, JONES LEVER , HAMMERGUN. THE MODERN GUN GUYS WERE AMAZED . I HEARD ONE GUY SAY-- HE WON THIS WITH A GUN THAT LOOKS LIKE IT CAME OVER ON THE "MAYFLOWER"!

FYI IT WAS A 10 GA THAT I HAD CHAMBER LINED TO A 12 GA.

Leighton I also have a Grant with Jones under lever and it's one of my favorite hammer guns.

Mills the DH is just as I bought it. I was told the case color is original but I can't speak to the barrels. They are 26 inches factory choked IC/F and make for a nice upland gun.

It really depends on what you prefer. Damascus barrels will blow up, Titanic barrels will sink in 12,000 feet of water. You pick.

What comes after this big choice?

A hammer gun?

Light 28" 1 frame 12

Or something that makes a bigger boom?

Keep your head down coming out of the crew entrance hatch or you will get your scalp creased.

That looks like Dick Van Dyke doing some silly skit.






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Dan,

I just keep it simple. I order my ammo from RST and don't think twice about it. I love it that the guy's at RST are making the proper ammo for us to use these vintage guns we all love so much. The least I can do is give them my business and hopefully they will be around for a long time.

Sure beats supporting WallyWorld !!!

Ok Everyone. I am proud to announce that I am officially part of the Parker Collector family. Appreciate and love your feedback regarding Damascus versus titanic or fluid steel barrels. I will forever remain that I like the look of the Damascus barrels and understand that they are perfectly fine with the right loads. Ultimately I may have stumbled upon a good find. I found a DH 12 gauge with 32 inch barrels and tears engraved on each side instead of dogs. It as a letter from Mark Conrad and is all original. I can't wait to take it out. It has serial number 228183 ( made November 12, 1928 ) No one can tell me how many were made with large game on the sides? Pictures will be coming soon although I am not much of a photographer. I greatly appreciate Jay with vintage fire arms, and Mike with Olathe Guns in Kansas help. I can tell you there is no one that I spoke with or helpful then these two when it comes to vintage Parkers. OK happy fourth of July everyone let's go shoot!

Congratulations!