The Guns of J.P. Sousa
 

I had the honor of preparing for re-display the two L.C. Smith shotguns owned and used by John Philip Sousa that are held in the collection of the National Museum of the Marine Corps. Both were donated by his grandson. One is a special ordered 12 gauge, A2 grade with 32" barrels which according to his grandson was used for duck hunting. The second is a Field grade, FW 20 gauge with 26" barrels which Sousa purchased late in life after being seriously injured in a riding accident. Both are fitted with the Miller Single Trigger.

According to the artifact record file, Sousa's grandson noted that Sousa owned many shotguns to include Parkers and at least one Purdey, ordered in 1911. He also noted that they "had all been sold off years ago."

Does anyone know the whereabouts of these? I know that the Trapshooting Hall of Fame holds an Ithaca Trap Gun owned by Sousa. Thanks in advance if anyone has some information.

Al, there is a Double Gun Journal article showing the Lindner Daly that Sousa gave up to shoot the Ithaca. Another article, this one in the Remington Society of America Journal, shows Sousa's F Grade (Premier Grade) Model 10 Remington two barrel set. Both guns remained in the family of Sousa's friend and shooting partner, Walter W. Posey, of Lancaster, PA, until recent years. Both articles were authored by Bill Murphy and his neighbor, Tom Breeden. By the way, my little Wirehair, Eva, is well at ten years old, and says "Hi!"

xxx

His Parker Bros. AAH-grade passed through Amoskeag Auctions some years ago.

I assume that was after it passed through Alderfer's. Can you give us some information on the Amoskeag sale?

Seen one auction house beginning with A you've seen them all.

Are you saying that Amoskeag is not the house you were referring to?

Sousa Guns
 

Here are a couple photo/articles from my collection. Sousa shooting in 1913 Harrisburg PA. tournament. May be his A2 SxS...

Randy Davis

Bill, to my knowledge the Sousa AAH Pigeon Gun never went through Amoskeag. According to my records, it came right out of a trunk in the attic of a female descendant (a grand niece?) and was consigned directly to Alderfer's.

Kevin, you might remember that I was second high bidder on the Sousa gun at the Alderfer auction. Mr. Noreen suggested that the gun went to another auction later, but he isn't replying to confirm or unconfirm that.

'Et tu', Researcher??

I guess Al got the information he needed, at least on two of the "missing" Sousa guns. They are both wonderful guns, great shooters, and will not likely leave my possession any time soon. There is another gun out there that seems to have Sousa connections, but no hard provenance.

I miss remembered. It was an auction house that began with A.

Al, I have another gun with "Sousa Lite" provenance that you may be interested in. Maybe we should talk.

Always interested in any of Sousa's guns. I'm especially curious as to where the Purdey ended up. I am going over to the U.K. in August with the wife to visit her folks. We plan on spending a day or two in London. I'm hoping to visit Purdey and perhaps see the Long Room. If the visit goes well, I may ask to see the ledger with the order information. I know that he ordered it in 1911. London will be quick, as we are actually headed up to Durham County. Other than Purdey, Holland & Holland and the Tower of London, which are planned, any other must see gun rooms?

Al, you can find the information on the Purdey with an email, just like you found the information on the Lindner Daly and the Remington, from me. I am getting close to the Sousa provenance on the Lindner Daly double gun as we speak. I have done it all from my desk. Sorry you aren't interested in the guns I have already provenanced. Have a nice time in London.

Bill:

I sent you a P.M.

Late to the party.

This might refer to the A2

Sporting Life June 19, 1909
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL5315026.pdf
http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports.../SL5315027.pdf
Syracuse, N. Y., June 11. The fifty-first annual shoot of the New York State Sports Men’s Association was held on June 7, 8, 9 and 10, under the auspices of the Onondago County Gun Club. In the long history of these events no tournament was ever so successful. The entry list was extremely heavy and the competition, on a high plane.
The Niagara-on-the-Lake grounds adjoined the beautiful Syracuse Yacht Club and stretched up from the lake, toward a fine background, though the lay of the field may have fooled some of the contestants at the beginning.
Many notable shooters were present including a large field of professionals. J. Phillip Sousa was one of the most conspicuous of the notabilities and his witty sayings and ready answers were much enjoyed by all, and shoots the finest grade the Hunter people make in the L. C. Smith.

Daly Diamond Grade SBT
Glass photo from the National Photo Company Collection, Library of Congress.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../408407777.jpg

Parker AAHE
Bain Collection, Library of Congress. Glass image c.1910-1915.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../408407776.jpg

Sporting Life Feb. 20, 1915

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../412301238.jpg

Details of the riding accident 9-6-1921
https://books.google.com/books?id=J2...gC&pg=PA33&lpg

The gun in the first picture is in my gun safe. The Parker is not.

It would be interesting to learn how many he actually had. Sounds like a good book project.

I think the ones we have discussed were the ones he shot on a regular basis. Like for the rest of us, those were the few and the important. My neighbor and co-author was on the track of another one that we haven't located. JPS Jr. had a baggo guns, but that is a different situation altogether.

Bill, did you receive the PM I sent you? I'm really interested in learning more about the Purdey.

Al, didn't get your message, or I can't locate it. I don't know anything about the Purdey, unfortunately.

Ran into another image which unfortunately is undated. His appearance is similar to the 1914 pic Randy posted on the previous page.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../412661895.jpg

No way to ID the double from that angle :(
Loblolly Pine in the background? Pinehurst?

Hard to say with 100% certainty. It looks like it may be the 20 gauge Field Grade FW held in the collection. His left hand appears to be wrapped around a splinter type forend. Also, the barrels look like they are a shorter length. The 20 gauge in the collection has 26" barrels.

Great picture. Never seen this one before, thanks.

Found another, and definitely a boxlock double

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL.../412688066.jpg

Drew, I have another gun that is probably a Sousa gun. It is a boxlock Prussian Daly Diamond Grade with a white frame like the one in the picture, made about 1897 according to a fellow Daly collector. Obviously, the one in the picture does not have an exposed hinge pin. I'm always looking for more pictures. Sousa, like Annie Oakley, posed for a very limited number of shotgun pictures.

Hey, 'wood to wood' Johnny Boy!





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Dean, JPS was not a high average shooter, but he did have his good days. Sort of like us. He also had some nice guns, sort of like us. In my next article on Sousa's guns, I will present the provenance for the Diamond Quality Prussian Daly pigeon gun.

Bill, in which publication should we expect to read your article? :whistle:






.

I will submit to the Double Gun Journal if I get my provenance in order. I was very satisfied with the Cote treatment of my first Sousa article about his Prussian Daly Diamond Grade Sextuple Trap. Unfortunately, they refused to publish my article on Sousa's Remington Model 10-F because it was a pump gun. The Remington Society of America Journal published the 10-F article and it was a wonderful presentation. If someone will tell me who owns the Sousa AAHE, I will be glad to prepare an article for the Parker Pages.

Okay guys... somebody fess up.





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Is the S N of this gun known?

Yes.

I think the serial number of the Parker is in the Parker records and probably in the Alderfer auction catalog. Kevin and I were both at the Alderfer sale where the AAH Parker was sold. Kevin and I were also at the sale where the other two Sousa guns were sold but we had no idea they were Sousa guns. A little later, the same house sold the double barrel Daly Diamond Grade pigeon gun that is also connected to Sousa ownership. I had no idea at the time that the Daly double pigeon gun had Sousa connections. I bought it because it was a great gun. I still own the Daly pigeon gun as well as the other two I wrote articles about.

Al Houde, back to the Purdey. In my file of Parker records there is an order copy for a request by William Wagner to reblack the barrels on an unnumbered Purdey. It is the only example I have seen in tens of thousands of Parker records of them working on a gun that is not a Parker. Since Sousa ordered several Parkers through the William Wagner establishment and was a bit of a VIP at Parker Brothers, I suspect that the Purdey sent to Parker Brothers for barrel blacking was Sousa's gun. Too bad no serial numbers.

Philadelphia Ledger March 1915. Looks to be his Smith

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skee...%20Copy-X2.jpg

His AAH

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skee...%282%29-XL.jpg

Definitely a boxlock and likely his Prussian Daly double

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skee...shooting-M.jpg

A great thread -- thanks to those who contributed.

I recently heard a story from a reliable source that Sousa asked Fred Gilbert for shooting lessons. Any of you trap historians know of this? Is it "old hat" or something that's become part of Gilbert family lore?

I have a former colleague, a DMA whose dissertation was on Sousa, that I've been trying to contact recently. We used to discuss the Sousa grade Ithacas. (Believe me, there were not too many discussions of shotguns going on in the academic hallways at that time.)

I'm now looking for the Murphy/Breeden article and other good suggestions from this thread. Thanks again. I enjoy learning from all of you.

I would like to think the gun in Drews post was Sousa's Purdey, but the long receiver makes it look more like his A-2 Smith. Garry, the Double Gun Journal, Summer 2013, had my and Tom Breeden's article about Sousa's Lindner Daly Sextuple, with many pictures. Our article about his Remington 10F is in a Remington Society Journal around the same time, also with many pictures.