My Conversation with Simmons
 

While at the Southern I missed the opportunity to talk to the guys at Simmons regarding their Parker barrel replacement project. I got the basics from guys who did speak to them, and also from the earlier thread here, but wanted to talk to them myself so I called today. My interest is in two sets of #1 frame 20 gauge barrels in 30" and 32" that would compliment the 12 gauge barrels currently on the guns. One is a D2 hammergun, the other a DH, both #1 framed guns, of course. The guys at Simmons were very helpful. They explained (which I knew) that they needed an order of 5 barrels sets to make it worthwhile. What I didn't know was that as long as the frame size is the same, they can mix hammergun and hammerless barrels in the same order. No problem. They do mark the barrels with their stamp to distinguish their's from originals. Fair enough. they will also profile the new barrels to match the balance of the old ones. They say they can also make the gun shoot 50/50, or 60/40, or whatever you want. Even better. All this and fitted and blued for $2,800. I can't help but think about the Wind River debacle that the LC Smith boys went through a while back. Some guy promised what he couldn't deliver. In no way do I mean to disparage Simmons, it's just that I have not seen their product yet. They are presently working on an order of #O frame barrels. I can't wait to hear about the final product. This sounds almost too good to be true. Is it?

Tom Carter and I met with them two weeks ago then last week Charlie Herzog and I met with them. We've supplied them with a sample 1 frame barrel and made available more and in other frame and bore sizes. We've sent the Parker specifications from Parker Pages and are prepared to help or provide any information they need. They can matt ribs by CNC machine that look like Parker ribs and can leave a blank space for the usual rib engraving, Titanic for D's, Vulcan for V's, etc. We've discussed muzzle endings, keels, breech broaching and choke profiles.

The company has the machinery, has been around for many years and it is hoped they will succeed. Its not a fly by night operation by any means, but Parker barrels are not easy to make. We wish them the best.

I should add that they are about 15 miles from me.

Ed, I should also add that we ( Charlie or me) can help on some barrel contours but not all. You wanted 20's on a 1 frame and neither of us have those. I don't have an O frame 16 either and one person wanted a set of 28ga on an O frame. In those situations, I would think Simmons would need measurements from members so they could draw proper barrel contours. They could guess and approximate what they should be, but they would be better off to have measurements from actual Parker barrels. You know that with 20's on a 1 frame, a forend made for 12's is not going to fit very well.

Bruce - Thanks for the insight on this project. I had not thought of the forend fit, but it makes sense. There's probably six other things I have not thought through either. We did talk about barrel contour yesterday, but more along the lines of getting proper balance.

Bruce ,I have a 16 Ga.,O Frame Barrel ,I am planning to send to Bachelders ,for Damascus restoration,Do you suppose they could take the measurements you speak of for Simmons ,maybe they wouldn't mind getting involved in this project ,Mine are from a DH Grade and they are near perfect cond. .,I also Have a 28 Ga. O frame ,but really wouldn't want to ship the barrels and take a chance of losing it to UPS or any of the others !I am hoping to attend the gathering at Pin Tail Point ,Does anybody know if Simmons will be there ,would be a great place to get the measurements ! Russ

Hello Russ. You know, it seems to me that this Simmons project, to be done properly, needs the input of Parker enthusiasts because we tend to be such picky SOB's and because Parkers have such complex detail. Simmons has said that they have been in contact with Brad Batchelder and they asked us about coming to the Annual Meeting/Vintagers and exhibiting there, which we encouraged. They are well aware, and Charlie expressed the point as only Charlie can, about the need to deliver when they say they will. I know they are presently waiting on a large shipment of barrel blanks.

So I don't know what to tell you right now but I will be retrieving a 1 frame 16 I left with them to take dimensions and will bring up the subject. Or you can call and ask.

Bruce ,I posted figuring Brad may see the post and possibly respond ,if he may be willing to get involved in the project , If Simmons is at the meeting ,I would think it would be a great place to get measurements and take orders etc. ,I completely agree with you a project such as this to be successful ,needs as much input and information that can be found as I am sure it will be a costly endeavor to Simmons to get it off the ground ,and the amount of customers is a limited bunch of folks in the Parker group !Im sure everyone would agree ,Quality and Guaranteed Delivery is essential in selling this product !

I don't think this is the last comment on the Simmons barrel project. More information must be included on other threads. Do any of the posters on this thread have further information to share?

I am hoping to attend the gathering at Pin Tail Point. (Quote)

What gathering are you referring to Russ? Did I miss something on here?

Daryl, check the date of the post. The meeting at Pintail point was a bit of a disappointment.

My Bad:banghead: Must be old age.:shock:

I do not now the specifics of this particular Simmons effort, but I know that last year I spoke with them about the possibility of re-matting an original Parker rib and they were scared as heck to even discuss it as soon as I mentioned the rib being concave. All they said was that IF they could figure a way to do it, I would likely not want to pay for it. They never mentioned a price range.

It seems that matting a flat rib is no problem for most.

The Simmons project died on the vine when the first supposedly finished barrel set was shown at the 2010 Vintagers and was a bit less of a result than anticipated.

I was involved in the project on a consulting basis. Simmons was able to produce a monobloc'ed barrel set with a rib. Difficulties arose when people expected contoured barrels instead of straight tapered tubes , wall thickness less than about the thickness of an 870 barrel, a perfect fit between the frame face and the barrel breach, balance at the hinge , concave rib, Parker rib matting instead of generic matting, the matting to stop before the muzzle, barrels touching at the muzzle, and the monobloc to be in various sizes to correspond with the frame sizes.

Simmons owned only a used two axis CNC machine and expected to perform all work with that machine, and had little or no hand finishing or fitting capability.

Beyond that, there were no problems.

Simmons has produced small gauge barrel sets for the Superposed. If you are aware of those, or have seen them, that was an example of what the Parker barrel sets would be.

Simmons has changed owners since the Parker barrel adventure, and when last heard, the project was dead.

Well, That ptetty much explains that....:)

I believe I heard some scuttlebutt about another well known shop taking on the project...

...anybody else hear that?

Are you referring to that well-known shop in New Britain, CT?

Nope

That shop doesn't work on Parker barrels.

The Superposed is a fine high quality gun, however, I would think it to be easier to make a barrels set for any O/U gun than a SxS. On those, you can get away with straight tubes and flat ribs and such.

I had initially ordered and give a deposit on five sets of Simmons "Parker Bros" hammergun barrels. Simmons started the first set but never finished them. The pieces changed hands several times and ended up with Brad Bachelder. Brad threw away their monoblock as junk , had someone make one for him, used the 30" 28ga tubes that came from Briley and completed and fitted the barrels to my O frame 16ga.
David

I may be the only person to get anything out of the Simmons/Parker project, and that was only because the guy who started the project, Reggie Jamison, stuck by his word to me and had the project finished by Brad Bachelder. It started out as a O-frame 16 gauge hammer gun with badly pitted barrels. When finished I got a 32" mono-blocked 20 gauge O-frame hammer gun. The rib has the proper matting with a Parker roll mark on top of the rib. The matting, roll-marking, barrel striking, or the mono-blocking were done nicely. There is only the faintest ripple in the barrels where they had to be contoured. Original forend fits the new barrels. Swings great and is death on doves and clays. I should send it to Mr. Dudley for a new stock. I've never posted pictures because I could never get good detail of the barrels or the rib. It was in Sanford last year and a few people have seen it.

David, was it your choice to send them to Brad or is that where the (formerly) Simmons Parker barrel project ended up and your projects simply went along with everything else?

Dean
My opinion of Reggie differs from my good friend Ed. Reggie took over the project from Simmons and was intending on having several shops complete the work. He would not tell me who had my gun, but a friend whispered it to me. I contacted Brad and he admitted that Reggie had given him my gun and the Simmons parts. I never did get all my $5000 deposit back from Simmons. I discussed this with the new owner and was told to contact the past owner. I did, repeatedly, and got all but $800 back in work or $$$. When it came time to pay Brad, Reggie claimed he was owed thousands for work he had had down on my gun. The former Simmons owner showed me where he had already paid Reggie for that work and Brad removed it from my bill. Live and learn!!
I do now have a treasured Parker Bros 28ga / 20 ga two barrel hammergun.:)
David

David, that's essentially what I had heard but didn't want to spill the beans, so to speak, in case Brad hadn't made it public knowledge yet. That was very kind of Brad.

I think I've seen the gun... if not, please show it to me next time we meet up.

Best, Dean

Yes, David had a difficult time with his project. Me, I got lucky, which is better than being smart or good looking.

The Parker Barrel project is still alive and well. I have been quiet about the status due to the fact that we would be overwhelmed with orders and not able to deliver.
It has been a long painfull road, but we currently have the programs for the various mono-blocs, top and bottom rib profiles, matting program and tube suppliers. We purchased a precision German Gun Drill and are working on fixtuering. The goal is to build barrels of the same quality and configuration of the originals. Quality and performance are second to none.
I can't give an accurate time frame for the start of production. We are still Setting up from the move. I can say that Parker Barrels will be the first ones that we run. I will keep our members posted. Thanks,

Brad

Brad, you are the man. I want to work for you. However, I can't afford to. Like my last job, I never took a paycheck, only took guns and gunsmithing in payment.

Thanks Brad for the very kind post on the progress of the project.
I didn't want to 'out' the rumor that it was your shop that had taken it on but now you've made it public and we can all respect all that you have gone through to get it all set up and be operational.

It is a very worthy project and will put a lot of nice old Parkers with bad barrels back in service for another century or two.

Best, Dean

Thank you Dean, As you know, my company is driven by the salvation of the heritage that is American Craftsmanship. I will direct my staff to gain the love and appreciation that I have for vintage firearms. Everyone that we save contributes to perserving firearms that will never be made again. Given the state of modern guns, I think it is worth it.

Brad

I always dreamed it would happen given the ingenuity of our gunsmiths: New barrels for Parker shotguns.I know a 10 bore C grade owner that will be very happy when this comes to fruition.

That is great news Brad! Will you be in the position to be able to re-matte original Parker barrels when all is said and done? There is a need for that work.

10 ga 3 frame barrels for my VHE cant hardly wait.