What Imbues a Gun With "Soul"?
 

Gentlemen:
The thread on the recent Fall Southern raised an intriguing question about certain guns having "soul."

So... rather than divert that thread onto a side road, I thought I'd post a new topic focused on a gun's soul.

As we can all agree, many Parkers have it. But a K-80 apparently does not. Neither would some plastic stocked Bennelli semi auto or Turkish box lock. Maybe even a thoroughly flogged and varnish slathered Trojan or Fox Sterlingworth would lack soul.

So... if we limit the issue to double guns for the sake of brevity, the question is:

Exactly what IS "soul" as applied to a Parker or other double gun?

And... which guns have it? And what guns don't?

Well, this will get me lit up, but here goes.

Reproductions don't have soul. IMHO, Almost nothing Japanese has soul.

I believe the first link in the "Soul Chain"
is the environment in which the gun is forged.
Organizational culture imbues soul.

It's a quality that is all but impossible to define in quantitative terms.

It's like asking what makes one woman attractive and another not.

It's like trying to explain why someone would restore an old tractor with a flathead four cylinder engine when he could buy a 4 year old Mahindra diesel for less money.

And it's possible a plastic stocked gun could have soul....let's suppose you carried it for 10 years in Alaska then through an Arctic nightmare that you barely lived through where it was your only means of survival. Plastic or not, by the time that was over it would have soul.

I don't know; in the world of vintage guitars the ones with the wine stains, wear holes in the top, and that look like they have been dragged behind a pickup truck for several miles are often referred to as having soul, so ...

And yes, even an abused Trojan or Sterlingworth can have soul. It depends on how well it served its master and how that master reciprocated. But that's just a small fraction of what imbues soul to something inanimate.





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To me "soul" is defined by a gun that has been through decades of use, has been crafted by hands that had attention to detail and by methods deemed crude by our modern manufacturing techniques. Provenance also adds something special to that "soul" in my opinion, whether the previous owner was a farmer from Kansas or a professional shooter back in the day when shooting was a spectator sport. The little dings and scratches add to that. Patina, if you will.

Thanks Daryl. My thoughts exactly.....

to me any gun could have soul just like a beautiful or plain jane person has a soul...i m sure no one will admit it but that first gun for most of us was a stevens or westernfield or mongeromy wards or...i have several guns that are not parkers and everone of them has soul...its in the eye of the beholder...remember that first bb gun did it have soul....charlie...

It is all in the mind of the shooter. I'm sure when I watched Col. Davies take six Ptarmigan in six shots on a covey rise, this Model 12 had plenty of "soul" --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...tember1974.jpg

Some modern guns have at least some soul. My 48 year old Krieghoff has been my companion on a daily basis for at least 30 years. My S&W K-22 has ridden in my cars and trucks every day for at least 40 years and saved my life once. It has a bit of soul.

Soul is not entirely in the mind of the beholder. It comes from different places.

A brand new Parker in 1911 might have lacked 'experience', and might have lacked an owner as it sat on a gun store shelf. But it still had plenty of soul. The character it would gain over the coming years of use would round out its soul - but the care and thought that went into its making ensured it had soul from day one.

Similarly, I don't believe any amount of beholding will ever imbue a Winchester 24 with soul.

Phil, You are right about the guitar with wear marks I call character, also a well worn case with faded and worn patches of concerts from long ago, you look at that case and pause and wonder, some good times for sure! gary

"If" that were 100% true and etched in stone so to speak , you guys wouldn't try to find BH and above grade guns in almost never used condition and rather look for Trogans or such that have almost had the life shot out of them . Provenance while nice to have for resale or bragging is nothing more then a verification that someone who was deemed important owned the object at some point , it adds nothing to the use ability of the gun or object . Provenance adds nothing to me liking or disliking an object .

to me it has nothing to do with grade or that stuff.

there are just some Parkers that I pick up and there is no connection/ no feel to the gun.
Others I pick up and I can instantly feel a connection to the gun. Like its got something special to it. You can feel the extra quality come out. Like shes got no misses in her and She is telling you she knows what to do.
Hard for me to put into words.

to me those are the guns that have soul.
each of us will be different. thank goodness or else we would all be fighting over the same guns. :)

for me soul can be found in any gun and any make. some have it, some don't.

. Not , that gun picks up no soul sitting in a dealer rack still brand new and unused no more then a new K-80 would in Ottsville PA or a Purdey sitting in the rack at Audley Street .

I disagree with Craig. Many guns have soul on the maker's rack. Think about a long barrel 28 gauge Boss, an eight gauge Watson, a well appointed Galazan Fox, all of which can have plenty of soul before they fire a shot. Dr. Truitt's statement means a lot to me. Some Parkers seem to have been ordered by people who knew which end the shot comes out. Others seem to be built for the hardware store rack.

To each his own Craig. I agree with John T. in that some guns you pick up just speak to you in their own way. I think the phrase most often used is "I can shoot this gun". I for one don't look for pristine high grade guns as I'm not a collector but a shooter. If they were owned by a famous person/shooter even better.
Let's say for arguments sake , a Rem 700 comes in to the shop you work at and you buy it because it was what you were looking for in either caliber or some other criteria used for buying rifles. After owning the rifle and taking some game with it or just punching holes in paper you find out it was one of the rifles shot by Carlos Hathcock in his career as a sniper. Even better he had X number of confirmed kills with it.
Are you telling me that rifle would'nt mean a little more to you than an off the shelf M700?
With all due respect, if it does'nt, then you don't truly understand the "soul" concept.

I think there is a big difference between looking for a mint condition collector's item and that gun that has developed "soul" over a life time of adventures together.

Could that lifetime of adventures together be displaying that mint condition collector's item at collector gun shows and vintage events?

Sorry to bust your bubble John, but my K32 has soul, at least IMO.

Ed:
I was just following opinions on another thread. So my bubble is intact. However, there appears to be an interesting range of opinion and insight so far!

As I see it, members have a few key positions. But they also pose some dichotomies:

• Japanese guns have no soul. But how about American guns? Or English? Or German?

• Soul can come through owner involvement/interaction. But is that soul or sentiment? And would someone recognize that quality 50 years from now?

• Soul can come via the wear and tear of use and age. But does that give a worn and torn Stevens soul? Or just a bad complexion?

• Enduring service can impart soul. But just because a $500 Trojan on Gunbroker served its original owner faultlessly, does it have soul?

• Craftsmanship and provenance could grant soul. But does the Czar’s Invincible have soul? Or notoriety?

• Does sentiment equal soul? I’d love to have my childhood Stevens/Fox back. But its value to me is personal. Is that soul? It would probably be a clunker to anyone else.

• Does efficacy equal soul? If a person makes every shot with a cut barrel VH, is that soul? Or simply good fit combined with human skill?

• Does soul come from fine materials and craftsmanship? If so, a Japanese Browning might compare to a AH Parker in soul. (Or a Toyota pickup might have as much soul as an S-Class Mercedes.)

• Does soul come from a name? Parker made about 250,000 guns. Does each one have a soul because it’s a Parker? Purdey made a fraction of that number. Does each Purdey have a soul?


I don’t know any of the answers. This may be a proverbial search for the Holy Grail.

(apologies to Monty Python… )

Ed, my K-32 has soul too, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Daryl's comment about picking up a gun and saying to yourself, "I can shoot this gun." comes from a shooting man, not a gun collector. Daryl and I both have a few collector guns that don't give us that feeling of "I can shoot this gun". However, some others, not neccesarily collector guns, but some that are collector guns, are guns that we know we can shoot. Sorry to say it, but "soul" is usually identified by people who know which end the shot comes out. I find it hard to believe that someone who has not paid his dues in shotgun shooting, either at game or competition shooting can identify soul in shotguns.

It's important not to over-analyze 'soul'. It's simply one of those things that if you have to have it explained to you, you wouldn't understand.

It's like trying to analyze why there is a marked difference between Rodie O'Donnell and Andie McDowell when in chronological, scientific, and socioeconomic terms there is very little difference in the two.

Great question. Plenty of elements go into it but there is no way to quantify it or define it objectively. All I can say is that I know it when I see it.

With guns.....It starts with quality built gun, proceeds to being associated with a known and respected brand, has a dominant history to the gun maker, was a practical gun when made, looks used but not abused, bonus points if it has family history.

This is why colt revolvers and 1911s appeal to me while non colt 1911s do not.

I have a colt AR15 that is fun to shoot, but it has as much soul to me as my trash can, it is a largely impractical gun. My winchester M70 supergrade does have a lot of soul.

Branding also plays a role, that's why I like colts and not Rugers of any kind. I like shooting Rugers but they don't bond with me.

All else fails, the gun just speaks to me.

The K32s soul comes from the 80 year old Cuban-American trapshooter from Miami who ordered it in 1971 from Hal DuPont and took excellent care of it for 40+ years before I got it. He got too old to shoot and like all of us, had to unencumber himself of some "stuff".

To answer your question, I have a honest worn, non abused Trojan that just looks like it was taken care of and used well. Running my hands over the gun it oozes soul out of every pore.

There are guns that just seem to have an attractive quality that goes beyond, "That's a nice looking gun". Guns with soul reveal themselves at the first encounter. They stir an emotional connection that makes you want to hold them, point them, feel the wood and metal. Their ability to do this has nothing to do with who owned them or the experiences they survived. The sum of their parts create a harmonic vibration with kindred spirits that that makes them want to bond. A couple years ago my good friend Jim DiSpagno sent me a set of 20 gauge Damascus barrels to be evaluated at a testing facility. When I removed them from the package and held them in my hand I knew immediately I had to have the rest of that gun. I didn't care what it cost, what issues it might have or where it had been. I called Jim and told him how I felt and he agreed to sell it to me at a fair price. Now it's my gun. I can look at it or shoot whenever I like. And every time I do I get that same feeling in my soul all over again. What's that worth?

Guns don't have "soul." The question is what "imbues" a gun with soul. The answer is what we do, with feelings we attach to the gun.

Soul is in the eye of the beholder. To me.

High quality hand work Soul

Shiny No Soul

Improper refinishing, improper repairs and poorly maintained No Soul

Honest wear on a properly maintained gun Soul

Proper balance and lively in the hands Soul

Poorly balanced No Soul

Japanese No soul

Your milage may very

All original smallbore Damascus Parkers have soul.

IMHO the "soul" of a gun is in the eye of the beholder of that gun. Gunner's Gun for me has lots of soul, it invokes memories each time I take it out and creates new ones as well. It might mean nothing to someone else.

Sometimes you just see a gun and pick it up and something happens (this occurs for me at least three times a year at the Southern and Hausmanns) a case in point is a lovely DHE 20 with 30 inch tubes and a Charles Boswell 20 that weighs a scant over 5lbs. Both these came home with me immediately.

Hand craftsmanship also tends to allow a gun to have soul as evidenced in Parker, Fox and most English guns as does the well cared for usage of that fine firearm. The question of "where has it been? what has it hunted? who carried this before me? The stories these could tell also adds to the soul of the gun.

At the end of the day it's a personal feeling soul for me might not qualify as soul to someone else.

Well then that eliminates all those Jap Parker's a good many of you hold in high regard :rotf:

Rich, It will not be as long as it has been on the Mattie Gun, engraving is finished it is at the stocker for fitting and then off to the French Grey man, did I show you the last engraving photos? This gun like Gunners will have Soul! Hell I might even sleep with the thing a night or two, for sure I will take a few photos of it laying against her stone, damn still get tore up thinking about her, Gary

My first ever double gun is a Stevens 5100 in 16ga. I once took a limit of four wild prairie pheasants with four shots from that simple old shooter; if that doesn't give it soul (to me at least) I don't know what would!

I still have it, and it goes with me on every trip as a rainy day gun. I seldom shoot it any more, but if I'm completely honest, I may shoot it better than any of the "better" guns I own!

When I buy a gun that interests me it has intrigue. In most cases it is a vintage American classic side by side made for waterfowl hunting. The gun inherits soul for me after I kill a few ducks over my black lab.

Gary I have not seen any pics of the engraving on Mattie's gun. I'd love to however. I know it will be well worth the wait and it already has soul.

Don't knock the reproductions, if you were 15 years old and opened one up for Christmas it probably have more soul than any other gun you would own for the rest of your life.

Mileage does it for me. The safe queens are nice to look at but they don't really click. I've got an old frosted up 1921 Trojan that's one of my favorites. The metal is what many of you would probably consider scrap and the wood's little better, but that old gun has lived a most full life. Locks up tight as a vault and has been killing squirrels this very season! I wonder how many families got through the depression with a somewhat full belly because of that simple old gun? For me, that's where you find soul.

An old friend of mine, John Madole, once took some kind of old Savage .22 Hornet he bought for like $200 and threw every ounce of toolmaking knowledge and artistic ability into it. It was really rather absurd, but he turned that piece of trunk trash into an absolute jaw dropper of a rifle. I seem to remember James Corpe fitting an exhibition-grade Claro walnut stock and forend to the little gun, and John had engraved and French grayed the receiver and so forth. Again, it was absurd. That rifle had soul because two of the greatest artisans I've ever met collaborated on a gun that should've never been considered for such a project and absolutely rocked it. The story goes that someone at a FEGA show once asked John why he bothered with such a hardware-grade gun to customize. He supposedly answered in his subdued way, "How much was the piece of canvas worth before da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa on it?" That was classic John. Wasn't so inclined to give you a direct answer as he was to ask you a pointed question which revealed the answer. God, I miss him...

I have to go back to the old Parker collector, now gone, who said we love the old guns because they harbor old men's souls and they remind you of the old soul's now gone that we wish we could share the old gun with just one more time and relive the best days.
I like the reference to the old guitars, ever see Willie Nelson in concert and his old guitar that is so worn it has a hole in it and he sits it down right beside the bottle of Jack he sips during a concert, talk about soul! Old guns, old friends, good whiskey and old souls, not sure how to define them but I know they make life worthwhile.