Dads Parker 10 Gauge
 

Ok here it is, My brother Dean could use any and all help with this. He talks to me or anyone who will listen to him for hours about it, and yes those are soldered on sights for deer hunting.

Thanks Matt

are you sure this is a 10 ga....the barrels look to have 8.2 lbs stamped on the barrels..if it is a 10 ga it has real heavy barrels on it for sure...it must be a 10 ga i looked up the serial number on 8 ga and there is no8 ga made with this serial number...i did not see the sights for deer hunting could you give us some more pictures of the main frame and stock area...some of these other fellas will pitch in soon...we like to talk parkers here too...charlie

more pictures to follow
 

Hey Charlie,

I should be able to get more pictures after deer season in November when I see Dads gun again. I'll take pictures of the sights also they are really crude and odd. If we get the gun redone we will most certaintly have it restored to original. It is really dirty condition as it has lots of cigarette tar on it. Dean says it has a #3 frame and believes it could be a grade 1. It does have Twist barrels even though dad has told us since we were kids that it had Damascus. Imagine his suprise when Dean told him about his Parker for two hours last week. Any and all help Dean can pass onto Dad in his old age about his gun really makes a very old man happy. thanks for any information Parker fans!

Matt

My 10 gauge (s/n 38598, ca. 1885) is almost identical to yours, and the table I'm using indicates yours was made later that same year. Mine's built on a #3 frame and the 32" barrels are stamped 5-14 (5 lbs, 14 oz). She's a big ol' gun, but they made them a lot bigger. What are all the extra numbers stamped on your frame underlug, as shown in this pic? I remember mine only having the 3, which indicates frame size.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachm...1&d=1445299208

By the way, you and Dean may get sick of talking Parkers if you hang around us very long! :rotf:

32 inch Barrels
 

Hey john,

Ours is also a 32 inch Barrel and yes it weighs a lot!

If I can get Dean to talk to all of you about Parkers then maybe he will no longer call me and talk to me for two hours straight. I have him watching this forum and I am sure he will start to pipe in when his wife lets him. We were gone all weekend Grouse hunting so he has to spend time with the family.

Dean can help you with numbers and any questions you may have. I thank all of you for all of the help with our gun. Dad is well into his 80's and like I said earlier Dean talked to him for two hours about his gun.

matt

It looks more like the barrel weight stamps are 5 lb. 12 0z.





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I was beginning to wonder if that "8" wasn't perhaps an over stamped or otherwise damaged "5" because 512 would put the barrels right about where they should be for a 3-frame gun, right? Eight pound barrels would make my gun pretty much useless as a shooter.

I blew up the Barrel picture and looked closer. it says 5 with a little 12 almost stamped right on top of the bigger 5. I am guessing that means 5 lbs 12 oz.
There is this marking near the 5 12 , (T) and a capital J and a 3 on the markings. There are also 2 other markings that I can't make out yet. but when I get better pictures in November I'll put them on for you guys to see. Is there any other markings that you guys need to see to help ID the gun and give it its rightful explanation?

I notice yours seems to have quite a bit more figure in the wood than mine, along with the dog's head buttplate, whereas my gun has the solid steel version. The dealer I bought mine from referred to it as a "Grade 0" (Zero) and even though it has some simple engraving on it, was supposedly Parker's cheapest grade at the time. He said the different grades were numbered back then, prior to when they began lettering them as DH, CHE, AH, and so forth. I haven't even started to research this and it's by far the oldest Parker I own, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will weigh in with some info. I'm wondering if the wood and buttplate may identify yours as a higher grade?

Yup, looks like a Grade 1. The Serialization Book lists the gun as a 32" 10 gauge with Twist Steel barrels, which it seems to be. Nice heavy gun, worth cleaning up when you get ready. We hope the bores are clean and shiny because everything else looks original and safe.

The wood looks awfully nice. Good figure and good condition, compared to others of same grade and vintage

I notice yours appears to be flecked with house paint, too. Why are so many of these old guns found with paint spatters on them? It would seem to imply that house painting was generally an armed affair back in the day. :rotf:

Yea John,
That is complements of my sisters when they painted the celling of the house 30 years ago. We are most likely going to have the gun redone by the DelGregos so I hope they will be able to get the paint off as well as bring out the great wood grain on the stock. Dean thinks the stock may be Circassian Walnut from Italy but we just don't know. we do know that the stock has some really cool grain on it.

In my case, the paint flecks popped right off when touched with a fine steel scribe under 10x magnification. I'm sure yours will clean up similarly. One of the most important things to remember when approaching one of these old guns is to stop before doing anything aggressive that can't be undone. Touching paint flecks under a microscope is a far cry from assaulting one with a wire brush and brake cleaner, ya know? Unfortunately, many people don't seem to get that and many of these otherwise fine guns are ruined as a result. If you feel the need to do some exploratory cleaning, please post your intentions up here first. Folks seem willing to chime in almost immediately if you're about to do something irreversible.

Let us know how the refinishing project goes.

Depending on the day of the week, and the position of the moon, you'll get a wide variety of responses to "I'm going to get it restored". I'm surprise everyone thus far thinks that's a great idea.

The gun doesn't look that bad, to me, to require a restoration automatically. It's not a rare or high grade or valuable gun - you might spend thousands more than it's worth having it restored. And for a gun with sentimental value, which yours has in spades, restoring it will turn it into a gun that is devoid of all the signs of your ancestors having used it. It will look 'new' again but it won't be recognizable as the gun your father, or anyone else alive, ever carried.

If it were mine...I'd leave it alone other than a minor cleaning. I'd take the $3-5K you'd have spent on a restoration and use it to take your dad on a field trip where he can shoot, or watch you shoot, the gun at something wild.

Also, I'm not sure but I seem to have been told by someone that DelGrego won't restore old hammer guns or Twist Steel guns or???

If you have the money for a full restoration, go for it.

If not, farm out the work or do it yourself. I agree with Fishtail.

Get the sights off the barrels. Buy Frontier 45 pads and scrub away on the barrels and receiver removing the crud. You will be surprised how they look afterwards.

Not much oil in the head of the stock, then go for a recheckering of the wood after you have removed the grunge (chemicals, no sanding). Then you can probably do the finish yourself.

Once restored, no one will want to use it and your dad bought it used anyway. Better hundreds of dollars instead of thousands on a family heirloom that can be used.

Lots of great info and advice from everyone. This forum is really cool! as of right now we are open to all advice and will consider every possible route before we make any move on restoration.

I hope Dean gets off of house probation soon so he can pipe in on this conversation. We would like to shoot the ole gun again but it has to be safe and original also. we can only use black powder from what we know. I also agree that we will need to have Dad see it shoot also. His years are numbered so we are on a schedule.

thanks again everyone.

if the barrels are in safe enough condition to be shot- that should be determined by someone familiar with these old guns, there are smokeless loads that simulate the low pressure of BP and made for short chambers

check out RSTs http://www.rstshells.com/

These low-pressure smokeless rounds will work fine for you and they're reasonably priced, too. Not like WalMart promotional dove load pricing, but most anyone with a job can afford them.

And those smokeless RST shells are so much cleaner to shoot and clean-up is a breeze compared to cleaning your gun after shooting black powder.
A great many of us shoot our Damascus or Twist or Laminated Steel barrels with low pressure smokeless ammo after having determined that they are in good safe condition.





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This is technically none if my business, but , I really wish you would think long and hard about a full restoration. I do not think that the gun looks that bad from what we can see in the pictures. Let a skilled barrel man such as Brad Bachelder look at the barrels first. He can tell you what your options are. Move slowly , think carefully, and seek advise. The wood can be gently cleaned up, also the frame can be cleaned up with a Frontier pad and Hoppes or light oil. These old guns have a beautiful patina that can not be replaced or regained once lost. All of the character will be lost with a full restoration. It is quite reasonable to believe that the barrels will need some work, at the very least removing the 'home grown' sites. But as Edger says, ' they are only original once.' Of course you need to repair broken or damaged parts but the guns can take on a warm feel , especially a family gun like yours. It would be a shame to take all of that away from the gun. I'm sorry If I come across as telling you what to do with your gun and how to spend your money, but I have received good advise from others in the past about this type of situation. Some times 'like new ' is not what it is cracked up to be. Respectfully, Mark

Wise advice, Mark.

Well I am off house probation

First of all, I want to thank those who have commented on my Dad's Parker. Tough to see the 82 year young man tear up about one of his lasting legacies as his time is slipping away. I reassured him it will stay in the family. The research I have put into 'ol reliable has been nothing short of 40-50 hours. Having you guys help fill in the gaps where you can has excited all of us involved. Starting to lean away from a full restore, starting to understand what we have and what it should be moving forward. As Matt posted, the pics after deer season will hopefully let all of you in on our family treasure. Please help us continue the "hunt" part of this treasure.

Thank you, Dean

i have a parker which is a 3 frame with barrels that says 7 lbs 14 ounce stamped on it with factory 30 inch barrels..shes heavy but handles really good..hope you get your parker fixed up in shooting shape..i would think twice before i altered this old gun fromits present state..i kinda like the idea of those sights on it.....charlie

Ok Parker friends,
1. is the gun safe and will we ever be able to fire it?
2. Who is our person to check out the barrels and where do we send it and what should we ask about getting it checked out?
3. Stock cleaning, what is the best and how or who should do it?
4. Recheckering thoughts?

help me out guys and gals

matt

Here is my 2 cents

Answer for #1,2 and 3. Send the entire gun to Brad Bachelder. Have him evaluate the gun (especially the barrels). If he determines the gun is sound, shoot it with low pressure ammo.

Answer #4, I would tell Brad to remove the sights as best he can and also have him clean up the wood. I would not rechecker the wood, new checkering without redoing the entire gun would not look proper. Leave it in as original condition as possible, it adds character and shows honest wear.

Since this has so much sentimental value to your Dad, why don't you gift a PGCA membership and research letter for Christmas. We just did that for another member as a gift. The membership can be made active and the research letter dated Dec 25th and present it as a gift to your Dad.

Matthew and Dean -

The T stamped on the barrel flat with the ( above it and the ) below is Parker Bros. stamp for Twist Steel barrels. You already know what the 5 and the 12 stand for, and the J is an inspector's or contractor's stamp, but we don't know just who.
The JS stamped on the lug next to the frame size 3 is John Stokes' mark. John Stokes was a barrel maker or contractor for Parker Bros.





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matt you should be able yourself to determine if the gun ius safe to shoot or not...about all my guns that are old have pitted barrels...they have been shot lots of time..soap and water and a soft tooth brush will help clean up the stock...whats wrong with that sight on the gun some of your ancesters put this on there for some reason i bet it was put on there for deer hunting...if it were my gun i would clean it up as best as i could andif pitts just aint terrible deep shoot them rst shells or load your own..pete lester has all of the 10 ga loads posted for us reloaders...charlie

Regarding the wood - more likely it is nicely grained American Black Walnut. As a rule, the grade 3 Parker was the lowest grade on which imported or Circassian walnut was used and the grain of yours definitely looks like American Black Walnut.





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We are leaning very strongly to not having the gun redone based on what we have been hearing from all of you. After deer season Ill get pictures of the sights for all of us to look at and figure out what we should or should not do with the sights.

The stock has some really good figuring and needs a good cleaning Which I hope will bring out its beauty without having to redo the stock.

I guess if we have to priority what needs to be done is
1. have a very old father 80+ with limited years see the gun he shot his first deer with (age 9) work once again
2. and a distant 2 I and Dean would like to say that we shot a Parker shotgun and maybe even hunt with it once again.

I will be taking pictures in three weeks is there any pictures that any of you need that will make the groups decisions easier as how to proceed with the cleaning of our Parker?

Once again thank you so much for all the guidance with our Parker.

I was 8 years old also time I saw Dad fire the gun I am now 52 and longing to see it work again. We were grouse hunting is what he said but the truth be know we were deer hunting that brisk fall day so many years ago. I have been a hunter ever since.

Matt, for what little an opinion's worth, I'd focus on your dad's age. As much as I dislike pointing out the obvious, his time with us is short. Throw an industrial-grade cleaning on that old shotgun, order a few boxes of the RST shells, and get all y'all out into a thicket somewhere and do some shooting! If you're especially concerned with the old gun's shootability, load it up, lay it across an old car tire, and pull off several rounds with a string from a safe distance. Parkers are extremely solid, well-built shotguns and most all the surviving examples will work just fine with appropriate shells. You can worry about what you'd like to do as regards refinishing after your dad's gone. Grab this opportunity while it's still an option and you won't come to regret a chance not taken. Don't even bother asking how I learned this...

Those "brisk fall days" scar a man's soul, don't they? And in such a wonderful way.

Now that is great advise Mr. Williams I think its time to get down to business! RST shells, is their a specific shot that is easier on the ole reliable? going to put some on order today!!!

Well thank you, sir! As to shot size, I would do it just like always and order the shot sized to suit whatever I thought may be hunted. Some of the more knowledgeable members of the forum may weigh in differently, but I think any of the available sizes will work perfectly in your fine old gun.

A simple correction of my brothers early submission. My Dad's BROTHER was nine when he shot his first deer with the Parker, it was before my Dad was even born. Sonny, as he was called, went on to fight in WWII, including the Battle of the Bulge. Lost him in the mid 60's to freak accident. Matt deer hunts with Sonny,s .30-06 to this day.

One last word on 'cleaning' the wood. In my limited experience, there are two types of cleaning you can do on wood that old and "patina'd". You can wipe it down with a rag and some gun oil, or you can strip it and refinish it which of course gets into 'restoration'.

The reason I say that is the concept of cleaning implies that there is dirt and gunk on top of the 'real' finish of the stock. In reality, the dirt and gunk over the years has become the finish of the stock. If you remove it, you are looking at bare wood.

More experienced people might have ways for you to 'doll up' what you have without refinishing but make sure you know what you're getting into. And if anyone mentions 'Murphy's Oil Soap' that's the same as 'finish stripper' for this sort of old gun.

Like others have said...I'd wipe it off with gun oil and a rag, clean the bores up, and shoot it with the proper shells. That's where the rewards lie.

To each his own ,

However when I wanna clean a stock but try and leave any of the original finish I clean it with of all things Hoppe's #9 and a soft cloth . After wiping off all the residue I can I then dry it a bit with a blow dryer let it sit a couple hours and then put a coat or two of Bowling Alley Wax or Johnson'S Paste Wax and the wood and buff it by hand with a CLEAN soft cloth .

That is a very nice gun and a great piece of family history.
You do not need to have it restored to shoot it again. All you need is to make sure it is safe to shoot. The main thing for safety is to be sure the barrel wall thickness is good. A good double gunsmith can check that for you or you could get a Manson gage from Brownells for under $100 to measure it yourself. If you search on this forum you will find lots of threads on measuring barrel wall thickness. It is also a good idea to be sure the gun is on face. If the closed action rattles or you can wiggle the barrels then it has loosened up over the years. It can be expensive to have a qualified smith tighten it up and put it back on face, but many members here have had great success with using a brass shim cut with scissors to shape, then bent and placed over the hinge pin where the barrel hook pivots. I have a .005 brass shim on my 1877 Parker and now it locks up nice and tight.

For cleaning the metal Frontier 45 pads were mentioned. If you want to remove light rust grime and whatever without harming the patina they are the best. They will not damage bluing case colors or damascus finish when used with a gun oil or Hoppes #9. Be sure to get the real deal. They look like steel scrub pads, but are not steel and wont harm the patina. They also work great on cleaning the bores. You can place a bit of one on a bore brush and it does great. For the wood you may want to initially only do something as simple as using a damp cloth to wipe it down to remove surface dirt. Damp not wet. At some point you will want to have a good smith take it apart and clean the insides of the locks and action, inspect the sears, etc., but if the locks appear to be working properly now and the barrels check out I would shoot it without hesitation.

Once you are sure it is safe get on out there with your dad and burn some powder. Down the road if you guys decide you want to spruce it up even more you absolutely can. There are some wonderful craftsman out there like Brad Bachelder that can take it as far as you want all the way to brand new looking, but if time is the essence then maybe there is no rush to go that route? All the best and have fun with it and your dad.

Well for anyone interested, I have completed the stock and forend "restore" myself. Basically 14 hours of cleaning and Johnson's Paste Wax as finish. Left everything else as is. Hand rubbing 2-3 more hours. Frontier pads coming this week to start on the barrels. Took apart what I was comfortable with... trigger guard, hammers, firing pins, forend. So far issues are; off face, need replacement hammer screws, possible barrel pitting...minor if exists, and overall inspection to see if gun is ready for grouse hunting. Hoping to find someone local to (200 miles and in) to complete our process. Matt and I will post pics soon and would appreciate any input, negative or positive, please. Thanks everyone.