Winchester 21 or Parker DH?
 

I am torn about which one to purchase, roughly the same price, both in 12. I have a Parker vhe 20, so this could add to a growing collection, plus I own a setter, and I've always wanted a setter engraved gun, so that's a plus. Please help me decide gentlemen!

Seriously?

You're asking a bunch of Parker fanatics that question?

I offer a resounding PARKER!!

I know!!!
 

I know seriously! I love Parkers too! So your telling me you've never been tempt d by 21s...

I wouldn't accept a Model 21 if it were offered to me for free. I have too many guns now. It's a well-made, strong gun but nothing---neither its appearance or provenance as a classic--- distinguishes it as the gun for me. The Parker beats it hands-down.

Michael, i am a fairly new sxs collector, but a long time sxs shooter and hunter. This may sound nuts, but in the last six or seven years, i have purchsed 20 or 25 doubles, and sold about five of the ones I have bought. Among those were two 21's, a 28" 16 and a 30" straight stock 12. I cannot put my finger on it, but.......neither of those shotguns felt, handled, balanced or shot as well as the Bakers, Elsies, Lefefevers Fox's or definitely not the Parkers I have had in my hands. And the prices a collectable, shootable 21 demands are in my opinion out of kilter (thankfully) with most of the rest of the classic american sxs choices.

Just my personal opiniom for what it is worth. A DH Parker is a work of art!,,

This will be in the rotation for upland hunting fyi. I'm leaning towards the Parker, just wanted to hear what you fine collectors had to say. I'm a fine bolt gun guy so just soliciting opinions!

Ok thank you! Good to know!

Here is one that might tempt you it did me. I love my Parker's but I find the appearance pleasing, and handles quit nice. It's a 20 gauge Grade 6 with 28" barrels. Started life as a field grade in 1941 sent back to the factory in 1945 for upgrade. George Ulrich engraved. I think most of us have found a little space for some non Parker SXS. My suggestion is handle both guns, and shoot them if you can. Buy the gun you will use.

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/49837_600x400.jpg
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/49838_600x400.jpg
http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/49839_600x400.jpg

Phil, that is good advice. But, as I said....just my opinion. BTW, an ultra custom gun like yours would probably turn my head also! I have a feeling though that you could buy a pretty snazzy BH or CH for the same money.

At the end of the day, its the gun that feels the best, and that you SHOOT the best, that is the right choice.

I do know this, i financed about 6 acquisitions of graded guns with the sale of thise two 21's.

Model 21 is a fine gun but a DH Parker is something very special. Parker gun works built nothing but shotguns and they have acquired a mystique unmatched by any other American maker. Either buy them both or choose the Parker.

21's have never over enthused me . Except a 16 gauge skeet we had in the shop for repair last year !

The gun needed a little work but I liked it and tried to talk the owner out of it but to no avail !

I own both plus Foxes and Elsies and would always select a DH over a Model 21. The Parker DH has it all over the 21 in terms of looks and class in my opinion. That being said my Model 21 Duck with 30" full choked barrels, a single trigger and splinter forend is a great waterfowl and clays gun.

In answer to your question to me Michael, I've shot skeet model 21's in 20, 28, and 12 gauges and I've been offered a few at very attractive prices. IF I had bought any of them it would only have been to flip them at reasonable prices. I would not have kept any of them and all but one 12 ga. we're in excellent original condition. So, no, the temptation was never really there for me. JMHO

I think Dean beat most of us to the expected answer

I have had Model 21's in 12 ga,16 ga and 20 ga, both the 12 (which I hunted with for 7 years) and the 20 were too heavy for my taste. The reason I hunted with the 12 so long was it was my first SXS and I knew the action was strong (which it is) and could handle any load. The 20 just didn't do anything for me and I even had it custom engraved with two of my dogs :shock: so they both ended up going down the road. I picked up the 16 ga mainly for the strength of the action for the UP flurry which was 75 birds in 2 1/2 minutes, one man shooting and you had to shoot this for part of the competition and no one I talked to liked it. It was very hard on guns and I didn't want to put my Parkers through that again so I bought the 21 16 ga. it has a balance like no other 21, the 16 is built like the Parker on a 20 ga frame, so the 16 weighs less then the 20 and feels good in your hand. If your looking at a 12 ga for hunting it is Parker period the weight of the 21 will get to you by the end of the day. For shooting sports where weight is not a factor or is a plus pick the gun that feels best to you.

I'm just saying...
 

:bowdown:I understand this is the PGCA, but Mike asked...
With only a tenth of the production of the Parker Gun, still plenty of interesting 21's to covet.
Sorry for the visual rant.

Here's a 6lb 6oz 28" 20 gauge 2 barrel set.
WS2/IC, Full/Mod

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...psk5sysjpv.jpg

Or a 6lb 12 oz 28" 12 gauge. Full/Mod

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps869mcqpc.jpg

A 30" 16 gauge at 6 and 3/4 pounds. Full/IMod
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...pscf9476d0.jpg

How about a 6 pound 16 gauge choked LMod/IC?
30" F/F along for the ride.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...del%2021/1.jpg

A 30" 20 gauge, F/F ?? With 26" WS1/WS2.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...pswaegjns9.jpg

First year 32" Vent Rib 12. F/F and absolutely slays them on the Continental Trap fields.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...psb9awe4jf.jpg

Maybe playing Devil's Advocate a little, the 21's are supposed to be the strongest built of the American doubles. If you wanted to shoot heavy loads, the 21 would be the one to get. If you want the custom, hand finish and engraving, the Parker is the way to go. Also, good, decent DH's seem to go in the $2,000-$3,000 range and 21's seem to start around $3,000 and go up from there - 12 gauges, of course

Mills offers good advice. You have not mentioned condition, though. Are the actions tight, barrels in good shape? Parkers tend to get wobbly actions.

If I wanted to shoot heavy loads all the time I'd use a #3 frame Parker. But really....I think most of us would be lucky to shoot enough to wear out a Parker.

20 years ago I had a nice CHE 20 ga for sale. The son of a very well known 21 expert came to look at it. He looked it over and more or less wrinkled his nose and declared that it paled in every way to a 21. I didn't care much either way, but his comments made me curious about 21's. I bought THE book his father had written that covers 21's and dove in. To this day I am amazed anyone would rather have a 21, especially in light of the 'pimp my gun' engraving and single trigger setup they are prone to have.

I'm just saying...
 

I always wondered what a straight stock Trojan would look like :rotf: Sorry couldn't help myself.

Bobby, do you agree that the 16 is the best balanced of the group. I love Parkers but I have to admit I really like that Model 21 16ga.

Clever marketing. Nothing more. Buy the gun, not the ad campaign.

It is too bad Parker did not make a dedicated magnum gun like the HE Super Fox or LC Smith Long Range. I understand they had some souped up 12's and 10's, but it is too bad they did not have a dedicated grade

The straight stocked 16 at 6 pounds is the lightest and liveliest of my modest cabinet. I've enjoyed carrying it for Quail and not too hard on the eyes.

PAH-LEEEEEASE!!


Here's an early "Tournament" 20 gauge with 30" IMod/LMod barrels
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...nies047a-1.jpg

Parker Bros. was not a fan of magnum cartridges or heavy loads, they were right but Americans certainly bought into bigger is better. It took me a long time to discover lighter is stunningly effective.

I had a M21 a nice 20ga skeet gun. The operative was HAD. It's a nice gun but it's not a Parker.

Although proclaimed "strongest" American double, if its strength you want, then the Win model 24 is as strong as the 21 and at a fraction of the cost. If your want a tractor, buy a Deere, if you want a Cadillac, get a Parker JMHO

I'm just saying...
 

Tractor...no,
Monster truck...perhaps

1937 Custom Shop "Flatside", 26" WS1/WS2 at a svelte 8 pounds
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...winies070a.jpg

Now if you want the uglist American double buy a M24. They are really two Model 37s stuck together. Winchester should have it called the Model 74.

Model 24's are not in any list of classic American doubles. At least, none I have seen

Mills, never said classic, just strong.

If I were stranded in the woods and could have only one gun it would be a 24. Not only could I shoot, I could also paddle water, drives stakes, and dig in rocky soil with it.

you could use it for a snorkel too!!

The snorkel idea isn't as far out as you might think. A duck hunter got caught on the mud flats near Anchorage years back. Feet stuck solid and the bore tide started coming in. Someone got to him with a boat but couldn't pull him out; a rescue helicopter was called. By the time the helo arrived, a Hughey I think, the hunter was totally submerged and breathing through the boat guys shotgun barrel. They tied onto him with the heli and tried to gently pull him out... no luck. They pulled him in half in the effort. Pretty gruesome I'm sure. He is only one of many who have gotten stuck in those flats on foot and been drowned by the bore tide.

Yikes!!!!!

I can't see anyway for a 26 inch barreled gun that weighs 8LBS being "svelte", not in my wildest dreams.:nono: My BHE 30 inch Pigeon gun is only slightly more than 8LBS on a #2 frame.

Back in about 1977, I was offered a Model 21 Duck Gun for $500.00.
Once I saw it I passed, that sucker rattled! It didn't latch tightly and was off face to boot. It was the loosest one I ever held.

I have owned and shot a Model 21 in both 16 and 20 gauge. But not for long:rotf:

:):):)I didn't know just how Bad these 21's were, but just to show you I am a team player. I am offering 15 cents on the dollar for all 12 gauge 21's, and 18 cents on the dollar for all sub-gauges. If you are more inclined to trades I have some Cresents I will trade straight across the board. I reserve the right to limit my buying to 25 guns.:)