Brief History of UMC Loaded 8-gauge Shells
 

After posting on the 1922 10-gauge article link, I reviewed UMC catalogues last night while watching TV. During the 1890s UMC only offered 8-gauge NPEs, both paper and all brass. Their first offering of loaded 8-gauge shells came in their 1900 catalogue --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps9b8322b3.png

They must have realized pretty quickly that some of those bulk smokeless powder loads were too hot and scaled back by 1901 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps0def5710.png

Things stayed the same through 1905 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps934ac8dc.png

UMC then began phasing out the TRAP shell and replaced it with an ARROW shell made for bulk smokeless powder. Previously the ARROW shell had just been made for dense smokeless powder.

June 1909, 8-gauge ARROW Shells loaded with bulk smokeless powder --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps4ff46b8b.png

June 1909, 8-gauge ARROW Shells loaded with black powder --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps1d37c755.png

UMC 8-Gauge Shells in the Teens
 

8-gauge ARROW Shells loaded with bulk smokeless powder 1913-14 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps8b61e5ce.png

8-gauge ARROW Shells loaded with black powder 1913-14 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps6a6dbad2.png

8-gauge ARROW Shells loaded with bulk smokeless powder 1918-19 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps57dc19ec.png

8-gauge ARROW Shells loaded with black powder 1918-19 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps2fe34b6b.png

The next catalogue I have is 1923 and all that is offered is 8-gauge yacht gun blanks and 3 1/4 inch ARROW NPEs.

Thanks Dave. You are a real resource to users of old doubles.

I would be interested in seeing the same type of documentation for 12 and sub gauges.

Bruce,

That is nowhere near as simple and straight forward as these few 8-gauge loadings.

Just in my 1903 UMC catalogue as an example, for smokeless powders there are six pages of 10- to 28-gauge loads in the NITRO CLUB shell, ten pages of 10- to 20-gauge loads in the ARROW shell and two pages of 10- to 20-gauge loads in the TRAP shell. Then for black powder there are six pages of 10- to 28-gauge loads in the NEW CLUB shell. Then more pages of single ball, buck shot and scatter loads. Also lots of footnotes for longer shells, special wadding, etc.

A couple of other 8-gauge notes. It doesn't appear that UMC ever offered 8-gauge shells loaded with any dense smokeless powders. In the Peters Cartridge Co. and Western Cartridge Co. catalogues I've looked through for the period I don't see them offering anything in 8-gauge. I don't have any Winchester ammunition catalogues from the hay day of the 8-gauge, so perhaps someone else can tell us what Winchester offered.

Sign me up for 1000 rounds of the Arrow, black powder, 2 oz of #1 shot loads. What a load that would have been for pass shooting high ducks.

no wonder the old silent auction 8 ga parker was so loose and off face..she must have fired countless loads of those 7 dram black powder loads..i really enjoyed these 8 ga loadings..thanks charlie

george could you post some pictures of those green 4 ga shells...charlie

Pointer Smokeless Loaded 8 Gauge Shells
 

Dave, Sears Roebuck catalogs 115 and 118 of the 1905-1910 period list smokeless loaded 8 gauge shotshells for sale. Pointer brand 8 gauge ammo manufactured by the Meriden Fire Arms Company is listed as Catalog item nos: 6T1924 and 6L1924. Both loads were listed as 5 1/2 Dram eq. 1 3/4 oz. of BB size shot only. I thought several points listed in the catalogs were interesting. Sears claimed they repeatedly tested their shotshells with electrical chronographs and that their black powder shells were loaded to average 960 feet per second while their smokeless shells were loaded to average 1050 fps. The 8 gauge brass BP shells they sold were 3" while the bulk smokeless paper 8 gauge shells were 3 1/4". The Pointer shells used a bulk smokeless powder called Triumph that was imported from England and which they claimed was superior to any American made smokeless powder and "There is no acid in Triumph to eat your gun barrel or to create an enormous breech pressure which is apt to endanger your life." Ten, twelve and sixteen gauge Pointer shells were were listed as being loaded with smokeless powder while the eight gauge Pointers were Hand Loaded with smokeless powder. The prices of boxes of 25 shells for 12, 10, and 8 gauge shells were $0.50, $0.55, and $1.37 respectively. HTH.

Those are some loads - I'd want a heavy gun for the 7 dram loads. Thanks for posting.

Factory loaded 4 gauge shells are scarce but not unknown. I've had a couple for years, both American and I believe both UMC.

DLH

Some Winchester 8-gauge NPEs from the current Wards Auction --

https://www.wardscollectibles.com/vi....php?item=1017

this is a rare box of 8 ga hulls wish i could afford them..charlie

I looked through UMC catalogues from 1887 to 1909 and found they offered their "Best" Quality brass NPE in a 4-inch 4-gauge --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps746d500a.png

and a "First Quality" (brown) paper NPE in 4-inch 4-gauge for black powder only. 1887 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psa992df13.png

1901 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps248856ae.png

The only loaded 4-gauge shell I found offered was the Yacht Gun shell loaded with 18 drams of black powder.

what a lot of smoke and noise that18 drams of blackwould make...thanks forthe postings..i have a umc and co.loaded 4 ga shell it is a paper hull with card board color hull it was not loaded byumc but was loaded by vl and d of new york top wad only gives no 4 shot wish it had the ounces of lead and powder... thanks again...charlie

I know this is a very old thread, but a March 1, 1906, Winchester ammo catalog showed up on ebay today. It shows they offered 8-gauge LEADER shells with loads up to 6 drams of bulk smokeless powder or the equivalent in dense smokeless powder and 2 ounces of shot.

Attachment 110861

If I was allowed to edit those old posts, I could replace the pictures lost to the Photobucket hostage taking.

I was just looking thru my 8 ga shells I seen a Winchester leader loaded with 7 drams of black powder and 2 1/4 ounce of shot..also a umc loaded 8 ga shell with 7 drams of black powder and 2 1/4 ounce of lead shot..2 1/4 ounce is the heaviest factory loads I have seen so far....charlie

That is what the Winchester ammo catalog on ebay shows. The heaviest black powder load offered is 7 drams pushing 2 1/4-ounce of shot.

Attachment 110862

Union Metallic Cartridge Co. showed bulk smokeless loads as heavy as the black powder loads in 1900 --

Attachment 110863

but backed off the smokeless loads for 1901 --

Attachment 110864

today I loaded up some Remington 8 ga black hulls with 7 grams of black powder and 2 1/4 ounce of shot...I always wondered how it felt to shoot some of these loads now I know...I used the Remington black hull ued cci primer 7 drams by measure and 2 1/4 ounce of no 6 lead shot..used 2 1/8 inch fiber wads over black that I had made 1 split wad over shot...no crimp used...all I can say it was a very loud explosion and a good pattern on a 5 gallon bucket at 30 steps...it kicked some but very manageable...I expect my powder not as good as factory black but still a good load..i amigine in its day this 7 fram load was used for long range load...will try a buckshot load next with the black..i shot this load in a 8 ga davenport single barrel weight about 11 1/2 lbs........

8 ga buckshot load
 

today I loaded up 2 Remington black 8 ga hulls with 00 buck..i used 7 drams of black powderin both loads...in one hull I loaded 12 00 buck in the other one I loaded 16 00 buck..i shot the 16 pellet load first at 43 steps to target it had a 3 foot pattern with all pellets in the circle .... next I shot the 12 pellet load it had a 3 foot pattern with only 10 of the 12 pellets in the circle...used noshot cup...may get better pattern if I use a shotcup that will be my next try...charlie