A Bit of a Poll
 

To set the stage as it were. Your gun safes are full, you have every Parker you ever wanted and thought you might ever want. So, not wanting to give up the thrill of the chase, your considering which other gunmaker to hoard examples of their trade.

The field has been narrowed down to Fox, Lefever and L.C. Smith. Using all the ingredients that are important to you, the collector/hunter/shooter, how would you rate the three to make you choose one over the other?

Thought this would be interesting to see how other folks thougth about those gunmakers.

Lefever, fox, Smith in that order. Dont really have a reason, although fewer Lefevers made. I have 6 Foxes and 2 Lefevers. Like Fox, Lefever went thru alot of hands, so one could really sub-specialize. Dont have any Smith's, although I did trade one on a GH 16 Parker.

I have them all!

LC Smith made the most vintage guns although a high percentage of those were 0 Grade or after 1912 the Field Grade. Buy a Smith because you love it as I do a few of mine. They are a sidelock gun and while not exactly like their English cousins, many do handle well. Don't believe me, just ask any of our Parker Team shooters as they face off against the squad of LC Smith shooters!

Lefevers changed a lot during production. If you don't believe me ask Brad Bachelder of any competent doublegun smith. Different ejector systems, different top lever systems, and so on. What year was that Lefever made? Well then it should be either this or that... But hey, I love the half dozen Lefevers that I own because each is unique in its own way!

Then there are the AH Fox guns. Ansley Herman Fox was a famous pigeon and later trap shooter. He designed his guns as if he were to use each and every one in the pigeon ring! I love my Fox guns from the 20 gauge Sterlingworth to the big HE Super Foxes!

Then there are those fine English guns... Somebody please stop me!

Happiness is a fine dog at my side and a fine double in my hands!
Mark

Yep, Mark said it better than me--and shoots alot better than me too!!

Nope, I do not shoot better that you. I just shoot bigger guns... :rotf:

Mark

I have some of each as well. Smith and Lefever would tie for first just because both can be had in the 10 gauge and dare I say it the 8 gauge . Now with that being said I have several nice old Fox guns that I like especially my 1930 A Grade 16 gauge .

it would be hard for me to choose between a lefever and a lc smith...i like and own both guns..would like to have a big fox or a little 20 but for some reason have never owned one...but i would probablt take a 8 ga lefever over a lc smith 8 and i do nt know why...charlie

I'd take whichever was in better shape I think and hope I could steal the other later :rotf:

Charlie id love to have a westley Richards droplock 8 ga, they still build them in fact they still build shotguns up to a sxs 4 ga ! over 100k us dollars of course . Imagine though the options if you had the money .
Ive always liked W.Richards anyhow

A lefever 7D or 8E boxlock in 16 gauge thank you very much.

One word ...Lefever.

Pick apart a Lefever and a Smith and tell me with all honesty ,do a Smith come even close :corn:

Chris I never read up on lefever , are they highly thought of like the parkers and smiths ? im more familiar with brit guns

In my opinion it's Lefevers from Syracuse era that really shine ,Dan's crossbolt gun that he made on his own last going off is nice as well.

Almost every wear point on a graded Lefever was owner adjustable ,granted some of it was probably not needed,but the first time I seen the the adjustable ball joint in the frame to compensate for looseness on face I was sold ...you only have to Tig a few hooks or turn some new pins and smoke in a few barrels to see the value in that design ,

Search the engraving styles on these guns ,very nice stuff there as well . The checkering is really well done on all grades

The one thing I don't like is restocking one ,on the first one years ago I ruined two blanks ,luckily the third was the charm ,I'm in no way ashamed to say it (although what in my mind was ruined was likely me being anal :banghead:)
that being said there's a great feeling of accomplishment when I finish one

I put them in the same league as Parker,a much different gun obviously but like Parker made in all sorts of dizzying array's ,and subtle nuances that keep collectors guessing.

My favorites are Parker, Smith and Fox, in that order. I don't own a Lefever (yet) so can't comment. I enjoy them all and sort of feel it unfair to compare them against each other. They are American classics

Fox. IMHO and in the opinion of a well known and highly respected gunsmith I trust, the Foxes are the most dependable mechanically even over the beloved Parker. To me a Fox handles as well as a Parker and that's why I like them.

Daryl, I was always told that there are few people who know how to work on a Fox because they never break down or need repaired.

Bingo!

Milton, if you have "never read up on the Lefever shotgun", you are a bit late to the party. You can catch up by finding some low grade gems and writing some checks. Good luck. Buy Elliott's book to give yourself a bit of a leg up.

Graded guns, small bores Fox (I know where a nice CE 16 is) LeFever (I know where a nice F grade 20 is) LC Smith I don't know where any small bores are.

A high grade Lefever (Sure, in my dreams), Fox with L.C. Smith third. I have a couple of Foxes and like them very much. Dependable, well balanced and attractive, even in Sterlingworth guise.

Lefever, Lindner Daly, Fox, pre 1913 Smith, in that order.

In descending order of preference - Parker, Fox, Ithaca, Syarcuse Lefevers, Iver Johnson Skeeters, Winchester 21s.

I REALLY like the Fox guns.

I disassembled my first AH Fox today and I was amazed with the complexity. Its a fantastic designe.

I want to get some more Foxes in my safe. They are great guns

Mine will be on its way to Brian Monday for a wood refinish.

I think my next gun will be a graded Fox small bore, perhaps a nice 20 guage.

Now wait a minute, I'm confused. I thought we were'nt buying any more guns?:vconfused:

I never said when my next gun would be certainly not right now. I have a deal I'm working on work wise that if it goes through my funding goals will be set then I can start pondering another gun.

And ponder you will.:bowdown:

Feed, feed, feed the addiction. Perhaps one of our musically inclined brethren could whip up a tune for us.

Fox, Parker, LC Smith. In the Fox family, Super Foxes, XE's and early style C's. In the Parker family 12ga damascus pre-1906 ( before Fox) #2 or #3 frame 30" waterfowl type guns.
In the Elsie family 10 bore 30" guns.

Even thow I like my parkers and foxes theres just something about those English doubles.

I must agree Wayne. Last year at Hausmanns I bought a lovely boxlock 20 ga Charles Boswell. It has 28 inch damascuss barrels, ejectors, straight grip and weigh just a tad over 5lbs. It's a little lighter than a H&H 20 w/26 inch bbls also purchased at Hausmanns the year befor.

Parkers, preferably in the smaller gauges and straight grips with composite barrels. Small bore straight grip pre-war Francotte's ring my chimes too... as do straight grip Foxes, David Mckay Browns. Oh, and double triggers on all please.

Sounds about like me .
I just finished looking at my tax returns so when that comes back i found a nice 10 ga remington i want to get my hands on :bowdown: hope to have a respectable collection in 2 year time

English guns seem to way slightly less than their American counter parts when all things are equal such as barrel lenth, over all lenth and guage. at least all mine do.

Wayne my C.G Bonehill weighs 10 lbs 2 oz its a 10 bore of course 32" Damascus . My next double will be either a rem 1894 or a Belgium guild gun .
Weight though hasn't never been a factor when I buy a gun then again im a young person :p .

A little extra weight dosnt hurt when it comes to recoil. My scott barely tips the scale at 9 lbs and has extra full and extra full chokes. I shoot light loads (1oz) and you still have no problem telling that you pulled the triggers.

with my three 10 bores

one English - an ounce or two over ten pounds - 32"

two Parkers (both #2 frames) nine and just shy of nine and a half - 30 and 32"


I expect it will vary a pound or two for any 10 bore guns on either side of the pond

this may be true for 12's - the British love light 12's