Old parker DH damscus- whats it worth
 

I love the look of damscus barrels. I always wanted to try my hand at restoring a gun. So I've run across a parker DH 12ga that dates from 1890 I haven't had a chance to see he gun. I've seen pictures and its very very rough. Its hard to get any details from the seller. I think the barrels have a couple dents. Original wood is there and looks OK, action is pitted a bit but there is basically no finish left. So lets say this is the case- barrels are no good, maybe mechanically its OK but the finish on the receiver will never get perfect. I figure this would be a good gun to try to learn how to do some restoration on. Maybe at some point fit another set of barrels on it. If I screw it up- I'm not real upset.

What would you parker experts pay for a gun like I've described?

My first thought on the barrels is don't be so sure they cannot be restored. I thought the same thing on my C grade Bernard barrels. After having some knowledgeble folks look at them, I am now shooting this 1893 Parker. My advise is to get a research letter. After that you will have an idea of how this Parker shipped from the factory. Then, consideration should be given to re-using as many of the components original to the Parker as possible. When you are finished you will still maintain as much of this Parker's originality as possible and that is very important. IMHO.

As for price, if in the condition you describe with the work needed I would try to get in it under $1,000.

Without seeing the gun, it is difficult to tell how much skill it would take to bring it back.

However, I would not recommend that a novice "restorer" start with a DH, no matter how tatty it might appear at first. There are plenty of abused Trojans and VH guns out there to "learn on."

I do, however, hope you get the gun and help it come back to life.

I paid 400 for a VH in that condition and for the same reason. Don't spend more than you can afford to loose is my advice. Potential re-sale is not likely. It is a good learning experience.

Bill

The biggest factors are how much you will pay versus how much work it will need.

A DH is surely not the first gun to try your hand at workin on. Depending on what that work may be.
What type of work would you like to try and do yourself?
Might be better to aquire a lower grade gun that is border line parts to try major restoration efforts on first.

Odds are, the barrels will be good. I do not mean good enough to restore, but might be good enough to use as is. Or there may be other issues with them that make cosmetic refinishing an illogical choice.
Pitting on the frame can be an issue to consider too. If it is beyond very light, the frame will have to be annealed, pitting polished out and engraving taken back up. To be right that is.

If the purchase price is right, buy the gun and get it evaluated fully to see if it is a good candidate for restoration. Then go from there.

Condition is everything. The fact that the gun is a D Grade doesn't add to its value if he receiver is pitted and worn. $1000 could buy you a nicer P or G.

John Harvard has a very nice restored GH damascuss 12ga listed in the for sale section. He has reduced the price to below $2K. That should give you an idea of value vs cost.

Well I bought the gun. I think my description was accurate other than the receiver actually looks pretty good. No pitting. It's a #1 frame and I think the barrels are probably toast. The dent looks like a repair was attempted using god knows what and there is a small horizontal crack about 10" from the muzzle end. Probably 1\4 " long. It's too bad because other than that that the barrels look pretty good. Very nice black/white Damascus pattern and bores look pretty good. I also bought a GH #2 frame from him. Probably would clean up pretty well. I'm in under $1k for both guns. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. Definitely thinking of sending them to someone for evaluation.

Please post some pictures,

maybe parts sales from the D can defray the cost of any work need on the G

Is the G 2 frame also a 12? how long are the barrels? and what are they like?

The DH WOOD is also not original - it's a restock that was probably a nice peice of wood, but really poorly done and maybe not salvageable. Original Skelton butt plate is there and I did get the original one which is a wreck.

The GH is a 12 and a damascus. Can still we the pattern fairly well but they have that brownish patina.

I don't know that I want to make the DH a parts gun. The thing is beautiful. I. see why a couple of you have said maybe an amateur restoration may not be the best thing to do. I may be going down a very dangerous path here- one where I'll
Spend lots of money.

I'll post some pictures when I get a chance, but I have a terrible time getting good detailed gun pictures for some reason.

not a pro there, but check your camera for a micro focus setting (on both of mine the icon for the setting is a flower) and use good natural light if you can. a flash tends to wash out the details

A No. 1 frame DH is very special. And... there have been recent successful attempts at welding up small Damascus barrel cracks, as long as they are toward the muzzle where pressures are lowest. Don't scrap those barrels yet...

Restoration projects are not all bad in my opinion. A while ago I posted some photos of an old DH I bought that was in very rough condition. True - I am guilty of sometimes bringing home three-legged dogs. A restoration project like this is definitely not something one should do with hopes of making money. But I just couldn't let the old gun wither away and die.

My intent was to have Brad Bachelder work his magic on the gun and the results are shown below. Some types of flaws are just too hard or expensive to fix. Pitting along the rib and some shallow pitting on the bottom of the receiver can't be undone without great effort and expense. As long as the tubes are sound then the potential for restoration is there. All in all I think the end result speaks for itself.

Beautiful gun John, you did good in bringing it back.

DH pictures
 

OK - so here are some pictures. Gun has 30" barrels and weighs 7.2 pounds. It needs a total restock. The junk that was put on there is not salvageable. It does have the skeleton butt plate on it though. At least I have the original for a pattern. It too is not salvageable. Its been cut for a recoil pad, a huge chuck is gone from it , someone did a terrible job grafting a new piece on the front, and a ginat crack is running through it.

Starting with the worst- this is the barrel damage. It starts 11 5/8 inches from the end of the muzzle and runs for 1/4 inch back towards the receiver. It looks like someone took a ball peen hammer to it.
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps5d158ac9.jpg

Another shot of the underside of the barrelshttp://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc9b5d83d.jpg


Top
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse8d5de1c.jpg

Screw is missing and the others aren't correct
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbd7f531c.jpg

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps774b2668.jpg

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps87427b12.jpg

GH pictures
 

Here are pictures of the GH. Also 30" barrels. Weighs 7.6 pounds. Stock is repairable. Its has two small cracks starting down by the triggergaurd.

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2780239c.jpg

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps24777d0a.jpg

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse83d8cb9.jpg

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps385ba6fe.jpg

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd653a3a3.jpg

Jeff, it's hard to tell about the barrels on your DH but the receiver is in MUCH better condition than the one I had Brad restore.

I'd send the DH to Bachelder and see what he says.
Especially about the barrels. A lot of stocks that some collectors think are junk can be salvaged if you are will to make some compromise. Like a Silver's pad for the butt instead of the skeleton on a restock?

It did turn out beautiful. Did all the engraving have to get recut?

As I recall Brad recut none of the engraving on the receiver. The trigger guard was toast and had to be completely replaced and engraved anew. The DHBP was salvaged and engraving recut.

Since you don't seem to have a wall thickness gauge or a bore micrometer, tell us what the marked barrel weight is on the #1 frame gun. That will yield a "clue". They are some good looking project guns in my opinion. You haven't shown us the D stock or skeleton butt plate. We would like to see those. The D looks like one of those early ones with a serial number that may begin in a five.

The barrel on the shotgun that I primarily use for sporting clays looked far worse than the barrel on your DH as I had a split-bulge 1 1/2 inches long repaired! Take your time, have pros look at the guns and good luck! Brad can do wonders with the barrel. Many stocks are repairable if all the pieces are there. While you will not end up with a gun that looks like it just came from the factory you can end up with a good looking gun.

I actually do have a bore micrometer. Bore on the right barrel is .731. As I move the caliper down the barrel to where its damaged its obviously out of round. If I spin the bore gauge in that spot it'll go up to .740 and return to .730. Bore on the left barrel is .730. Both have a
.038 restriction.

The d serial number is 62735. Barrel weight is 3 10oz. As I said - the stock and skeleton butt plate is non original, doesn't fit and is in horrible shape. Even the butt plate doesn't look that good as I study it. The stock does have a number on it-tough to make out but I think is says 123564 or 123554, then its got a 3 under it. I'm thinking this means it was from a 3 frame gun because you can see where someone tried to narrow and shrink the front of the stock where it meets the receiver with a file so it matched up with the metal. Its still way proud of the metal. The original stock which was cut an obviously has an aftermarket pad ("black sheep"

Looking at the receiver it's got a 3 directly above the serial number. Almost makes me think it means its a 3 frame, but the barrels which do have a matching serial number definitely have a 1 on the lug. I don't see reference to this number on the from page. Maybe that's why someone found a replacement stock for a bigger gun. They thought it was a 3 frame.

The GH is serial number 75261. barrels are 4# 5oz.

the 1 on the lug is the frame size

the 3 by the serial number is the grade

the engraving style is does look like the 55k ones - since is is only a few hundred away

another 1 frame 30" 12

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...erdpointer.jpg

The "3" on the stock is also the grade, not the frame size. I was close on the serial number of the D!

Ah- makes sense. That's why there is a 2 on the GH. Hmm- maybe I'll be moving this to the restoration thread. I've seen two names thrown out a lot in my searches for Damascus barrel repair- Brad Bachelder and Dale Edmonds- can I assume that either would be able to evaluate these and if a repair is possible perform it?

could not have gotten much closer Carnac :clap:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../21/Carnac.jpg

Dale just redid some Damascus barrels for me and they turned out great. Lots of others on here have used Brad B with great results too.